In a defiant speech to the UN Security Council, North Korea insisted its efforts to launch a spy satellite into space are transparent and within “its legitimate right as a sovereign state.”
Not really, it was agreed to as a treaty after WW2 (so US, China and USSR were all responsible) then the China-supported north invaded the US-supported south and it led to a stalemate
If anything the current unstable situation was caused by China, but there’s no way the US were the direct cause
Who instated the genocidal anti-communust dictator Syngman Rhee in South Korea? Who supported and armed him? Who has maintained a military presence in the south constantly threatening the north?
Don’t get me wrong, N. Korea has since become a brutal dictatorship as well, but in the 50s the south was even worse. The north didn’t just invade for fun - they were constantly provoked and threatened by the south.
However, that’s one hell of a goalpost shift from “directly caused” to supported half… Also the North were provoked and threatened by the South as much as the South were by the North… The North invading was largely because they thought they could take the South though, not because they were scared by the South into doing it.
I think who provoked whom is a bit orthogonal to the dicussion though there is definitely merit in knowing the history accurately.
If one considers that Kim Il Sung with the help of USSR and China defeated Japanese colonisers, then the USA swoops in and reinstates some Japanese and their Korean collaborators to positions of authority in their half of the split, I think it would make sense if North Korea invaded without provocation. No blood was spilt by the Americans in the process of Korean liberation directly.
This is tankie garbage. Syngman Rhee was certainly horrible. But he was not instated. He was voted in. He had a very long history of being in Korean politics. He was certainly given a boost by the Americans. But he was also given a boost by Kim refusing to participate in the elections.
And let us not pretend that the soviets and Chinese involved were just liberators. They had their own political games they were playing and boosted Kim just as much. The elections in the north were completely controlled by the soviets. And you gripe about the presence of American troops, but support the Chinese troops in the north.
The north didn’t invade for fun. The north invaded because Kim thought he could have even more power and that the US would not intervene. He was wrong. He would have been completely removed had it not been for the Chinese.
Both sides had imperialistic outside support from corrupt governments. Both sides used totalitarianism to maintain control. One side is currently the most inhumane country on the planet and the other has a modern standard of living. To say the south was worse in a very short time period is ridiculous. In reality, due to the harsh restrictions and cult of personality in the north we do not even really know how bad the north was. The standard of living may have been better, but concerning totalitarian governments it is impossible to say.
I actually agree with you about NK being a brutal dectatorship. I’m not a tankie or a dictator apologist. Far from it. You’re misreading my comment through a biased lens, making personal assumptions about me.
I just wanted to point out that the US had a primary role in creating and worsening the divsion of korea for decades. Even if the USSR and China and their form of imperialism was also to blame. That’s just a historical fact that is purposefuly obscured by propaganda and it’s important to remember.
Also a certain US general has larger war ambitions that created a clusterfuck. They had easily repelled the offensive and pushed the north basicallly to the Yalu river. But then the general straight defied orders and started a full scale invasion and wanted to push further, into china.
That attarmpt triggered china to actually respond and push everything back got the 38th.
Had MacArthur not been such an ego driven maniac Korea may look quite different today.
The north didn’t just invade for fun - they were constantly provoked and threatened by the south.
This is what exactly North Korea says about the war. I mean not exactly. They say that we attacked them so 🤷
But they started the war because they thought that they will win. They weren’t wrong. They were objectively stronger. Crazy fuck Kim Ilsung, who is definitely worse genocidal communist dictator than Lee Seungman, begged Stalin to start the war.
It’s crazy how some people who barely know anything aabout OUR history talk with such confidence. I served my country here in South Korea, involuntarily because of those freaking communists. What do you know so well about us that makes you talk something that is absolutely wrong with such confidence?
Just because you’re korean and have some personal connection doesn’t mean youre immune to propaganda or that your countrys history hasn’t been misrepresented for propaganda purposes.
The leadup to the war which is Kim Ilsung wanting to rule South Korea by invading with superior military force? I’m not saying that you denied the North invading. I’m saying your reason for the invasion is wrong.
And surprise, surprise. I knew you would show up with a Wikipedia page to prove the South bad. First of all, I’m not saying he’s the nice guy. He did bad stuff. Doesn’t make Kim Il-sung anything more than a crazy massacring dictator who definitely started the war and then almost peed himself for what might happen to him by the Soviets after being colossally stupid and starting the war. He was so sure he could win and then scapegoated one of his guys for the failed attempt like a bitch.
And why do you even bring up Jeju uprising? Armed commies tried to take over the country. Civilians were dead, yes. Blood is on commie’s hands too.
Just because you’re korean and have some personal connection doesn’t mean youre immune to propaganda or that your countrys history hasn’t been misrepresented for propaganda purposes.
And you are immune to propaganda and know more about the history of my country because…?
Kim Il Sung was a war hero who liberated the Korean peninsula from the Japanese, and almost liberated it from the USA. You’re incredibly ungrateful because it’s thanks to him that you’re allowed to speak Korean today.
why? that’s 11.5 hours of podcast. i don’t do enough long haul trucking to listen to podcasts, but that is a lot of homework to assign to a stranger with no justification given.
The whole 2 Koreas situation is directly caused by the US as well
Not really, it was agreed to as a treaty after WW2 (so US, China and USSR were all responsible) then the China-supported north invaded the US-supported south and it led to a stalemate
If anything the current unstable situation was caused by China, but there’s no way the US were the direct cause
Who instated the genocidal anti-communust dictator Syngman Rhee in South Korea? Who supported and armed him? Who has maintained a military presence in the south constantly threatening the north?
Don’t get me wrong, N. Korea has since become a brutal dictatorship as well, but in the 50s the south was even worse. The north didn’t just invade for fun - they were constantly provoked and threatened by the south.
Re. your first point, 100% the USA.
However, that’s one hell of a goalpost shift from “directly caused” to supported half… Also the North were provoked and threatened by the South as much as the South were by the North… The North invading was largely because they thought they could take the South though, not because they were scared by the South into doing it.
I think who provoked whom is a bit orthogonal to the dicussion though there is definitely merit in knowing the history accurately.
If one considers that Kim Il Sung with the help of USSR and China defeated Japanese colonisers, then the USA swoops in and reinstates some Japanese and their Korean collaborators to positions of authority in their half of the split, I think it would make sense if North Korea invaded without provocation. No blood was spilt by the Americans in the process of Korean liberation directly.
This is tankie garbage. Syngman Rhee was certainly horrible. But he was not instated. He was voted in. He had a very long history of being in Korean politics. He was certainly given a boost by the Americans. But he was also given a boost by Kim refusing to participate in the elections.
And let us not pretend that the soviets and Chinese involved were just liberators. They had their own political games they were playing and boosted Kim just as much. The elections in the north were completely controlled by the soviets. And you gripe about the presence of American troops, but support the Chinese troops in the north.
The north didn’t invade for fun. The north invaded because Kim thought he could have even more power and that the US would not intervene. He was wrong. He would have been completely removed had it not been for the Chinese.
Both sides had imperialistic outside support from corrupt governments. Both sides used totalitarianism to maintain control. One side is currently the most inhumane country on the planet and the other has a modern standard of living. To say the south was worse in a very short time period is ridiculous. In reality, due to the harsh restrictions and cult of personality in the north we do not even really know how bad the north was. The standard of living may have been better, but concerning totalitarian governments it is impossible to say.
I actually agree with you about NK being a brutal dectatorship. I’m not a tankie or a dictator apologist. Far from it. You’re misreading my comment through a biased lens, making personal assumptions about me.
I just wanted to point out that the US had a primary role in creating and worsening the divsion of korea for decades. Even if the USSR and China and their form of imperialism was also to blame. That’s just a historical fact that is purposefuly obscured by propaganda and it’s important to remember.
I would agree.
Also a certain US general has larger war ambitions that created a clusterfuck. They had easily repelled the offensive and pushed the north basicallly to the Yalu river. But then the general straight defied orders and started a full scale invasion and wanted to push further, into china.
That attarmpt triggered china to actually respond and push everything back got the 38th.
Had MacArthur not been such an ego driven maniac Korea may look quite different today.
This is what exactly North Korea says about the war. I mean not exactly. They say that we attacked them so 🤷
But they started the war because they thought that they will win. They weren’t wrong. They were objectively stronger. Crazy fuck Kim Ilsung, who is definitely worse genocidal communist dictator than Lee Seungman, begged Stalin to start the war.
It’s crazy how some people who barely know anything aabout OUR history talk with such confidence. I served my country here in South Korea, involuntarily because of those freaking communists. What do you know so well about us that makes you talk something that is absolutely wrong with such confidence?
I’m talking about the leadup to the war, I’m not denying that the north invaded but it didn’t happen unprovoked or even unjustified.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeju_uprising
Just because you’re korean and have some personal connection doesn’t mean youre immune to propaganda or that your countrys history hasn’t been misrepresented for propaganda purposes.
The leadup to the war which is Kim Ilsung wanting to rule South Korea by invading with superior military force? I’m not saying that you denied the North invading. I’m saying your reason for the invasion is wrong.
And surprise, surprise. I knew you would show up with a Wikipedia page to prove the South bad. First of all, I’m not saying he’s the nice guy. He did bad stuff. Doesn’t make Kim Il-sung anything more than a crazy massacring dictator who definitely started the war and then almost peed himself for what might happen to him by the Soviets after being colossally stupid and starting the war. He was so sure he could win and then scapegoated one of his guys for the failed attempt like a bitch.
And why do you even bring up Jeju uprising? Armed commies tried to take over the country. Civilians were dead, yes. Blood is on commie’s hands too.
And you are immune to propaganda and know more about the history of my country because…?
Kim Il Sung was a war hero who liberated the Korean peninsula from the Japanese, and almost liberated it from the USA. You’re incredibly ungrateful because it’s thanks to him that you’re allowed to speak Korean today.
Except no.
Please take this as an opportunity to listen to season 3 of this very educational podcast:
Blowback | Podcast on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/2pibBnPuHqKr07hxEMZE41
why? that’s 11.5 hours of podcast. i don’t do enough long haul trucking to listen to podcasts, but that is a lot of homework to assign to a stranger with no justification given.
Listen to just the first episode then.