• Piye@lemmygrad.ml
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    11 months ago

    So is Turkey, your NATO ally who bombs minorities and steals other peoples cultural heritage. Stop being a hypocrite

      • vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
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        11 months ago

        Turkey is a genocidal horde. Russia one could call controversial before 2022, now it’s just miserable and on its way to becoming a trainwreck.

        EDIT: What I meant - it’s a good example, if you just call that “controversial” and not a problem to be solved now, while Russia somehow is.

    • socsa@lemmy.ml
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      11 months ago

      Big words from someone who just brought three different forms of sharia law into BRICS.

      I still don’t fucking understand why tankies simp so hard for this shit. It’s like you are trying to prove that your philosophy is no deeper than “America bad.”

        • ZILtoid1991@kbin.social
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          11 months ago

          Lemmygrad 🤡

          (Also Putin is not a communist, but a post-fascist masquerading as an anti-fascist)

          • Łumało [he/him]@lemmygrad.ml
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            11 months ago

            Also Putin is not a communist, but a post-fascist masquerading as an anti-fascist

            Wow, so you do actually have eyes! Fucking hell, you are raising my respect for you!

            Fun fact, I would nothing but for Putin to get hanged. But not by American imperialists and their lapdogs, but by the russian proletariat for the reestablishment of an RSFSR.

            So sorry buddy. It seems your assumption about me has been wrong, I suggest lurking more before speaking about your opponents.

            • vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
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              11 months ago

              but by the russian proletariat for the reestablishment of an RSFSR.

              “Russian proletariat” is mostly ansyn or Trotskyist, when political, just informing you. EDIT: And also it’s a very little portion of the society.

              And most of those sporting Commie symbolic just use it cause USSR big, USSR strong, USSR everybody fear, USSR boom, but somehow later boom.

    • BigNote@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      Unfortunately NATO wasn’t designed in a way that conceived of a rogue member state like Turkey. This means that it has a very limited toolkit for reigning in Erdogan’s excesses. He also has a huge amount of leverage due to Turkey’s pivotal role on the Black Sea which is obviously critical to everything happening in Ukraine. For now, NATO really does have its hands tied with regard to Turkey.

      • vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
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        11 months ago

        No, it doesn’t really, they just don’t want to do anything. Everything happening in Ukraine started happening much later than Turkey happened.

        And about NATO design not conceiving of something - when Turkey was admitted to NATO, there were people still alive who saw not their parents and grandparents, but their children and grandchildren killed before their eyes in 1915-1921.

        It was conceived that if somebody really wanted to get rid of that thing, then it’d be possible to make a shortcut on paperwork with all the military power. 1952, remember. But then again, it was 1952, you know, colonial powers still being that and not caring much about genocides of brown people. So nobody would see Turkey’s current behavior as a problem.

    • Kata1yst@kbin.social
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      11 months ago

      The best and last argument of dumb tankies is whataboutism. Thank you for your insightful contribution.

      • vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
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        11 months ago

        I don’t think it’s whataboutism to point out that a worse criminal you are fine with, and a smaller one not, because the latter kills “blue-eyed Europeans” and all that.

        You can’t just discard observations that you are a hypocritical bag of piss with that one word, “whataboutism”. And it only refers to somebody defending their own crimes. Most of real whataboutism I see in social media comes from Turks and Westerners defending Turks.

        Other than that, if somebody says that and you don’t, I don’t care if they’re a tankie. Turkey is worse than a Stalinist dictatorship, and I have priorities.

        • Kata1yst@kbin.social
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          11 months ago

          Actually, that’s exactly what whataboutism is.

          Someone says: wow, topic A is bad.

          Whataboutism says: oh yeah, well B is bad/worse!!!1!

          Point is, we’re not talking about B/Turkey. And B/Turkey being bad doesn’t mean that A/Russia is excused from their terrible behavior.

          And (gasp!) Just because I oppose A/Russia doesn’t mean I support B/Turkey.

          The entire argument is bad faith and lacking any logic or critical thinking.

          • vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
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            11 months ago

            If you support the side opposite to Russia, be it Ukraine or NATO, you sort of support Turkey, cause of the context of alliances and relations. Turkey is in NATO and Turkey is friendly with Ukraine.

            Point is, we’re not talking about B/Turkey.

            We actually are doing that right now. If you don’t want to, you can leave this conversation. That’s the way conversations work.

            And B/Turkey being bad doesn’t mean that A/Russia is excused from their terrible behavior.

            Yes, it isn’t. You seem to imply that I said it is. I haven’t.

            And (gasp!) Just because I oppose A/Russia doesn’t mean I support B/Turkey.

            Not in general. But in our specific situation you sort of do through that opposing side being Turkey’s friend more than Russia itself.

            The entire argument is bad faith and lacking any logic or critical thinking.

            On all sides.

            Now, about bad faith - if people like you yelling “whataboutism” can prevent a conversation on a certain subject, then it’s not really whataboutism. If they can do that without preventing that conversation from happening, then maybe it is. “Whataboutism” is not a basic concept. Once we turn to logic instead of some list of common fallacies, we don’t need it (and also logic beats any such shortcut).

            Same with “critical thinking”.