• aleph@lemm.ee
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    7 months ago

    Is there any evidence that Hamas has taken new hostages since October 7th? Because AFAIK there isn’t.

    • TheFonz@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      A temporal attribute has not been included in this statement:

      Hamas just hasn’t been taking civilian noncombatants as hostages like Israel has been doing.

      But you have added a temporal qualifier:

      taken new hostages since October 7th

      I think maybe that’s where the disconnect is? I don’t know. I don’t know who or what you’re arguing against.

      • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        No you are changing the statement yourself. The statement is

        Hamas just hasn’t been taking civilian noncombatants as hostages like Israel has been doing.

        Israel is widely kidnapping mostly innocent civilians whereas Hamas very much targeted military for kidnapping.

        This is as obvious as the lower than 2/3 civilian casualty rate for Hamas whereas israel has a far higher civilian casualty rate.

        • TheFonz@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          Sources? Do I even want your sources at this point…last time I asked for evidence you gave me a verbal statement by the prime minister and that was good enough in your book. You really don’t need much convincing when the evidence aligns with your bias, do you?

          • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Last time you got a source you denied reality and pretended that “no that doesn’t count”. I’m not sure why you are bringing this up it only makes you look bad.

            Israel social security data reveals true picture of Oct 7 deaths

            The final death toll from the attack is now thought to be 695 Israeli civilians, including 36 children, as well as 373 security forces and 71 foreigners, giving a total of 1,139.

            • TheFonz@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              I’m realizing that either your intentionally ignoring what I’m saying or English is not your first language.

              Your standard of evidence was a quote by Benjamin Netanyahu

              For honest people one off quotes do not constitute evidence.

              So yes: I reject your standard for proof because it is very low

      • aleph@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        The temporal qualifier is inherent in the grammar of the statement. Perhaps you didn’t notice it?

        In English, the present perfect continuous has/hasn’t been taking implies a frequent and repeated action since a fixed time in the past - in this case, presumably, the start of the current conflict until now.

        Since Hamas only took civilian hostages on one occasion, i.e. October 7th, and not again since, it is not true to say that Hamas “has been taking hostages”. They took hostages. Once.

        Israel, on the other hand, have been taking Palestinian civilians captive, repeatedly, since October 7th. That’s the difference.

        • TheFonz@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          You’re inferring the start point for the perfect continuous and assigning Oct 7; I’m assigning the start point to be the overall conflict in a broader context. I’m being charitable. I might be wrong, but I can’t read OPs mind so I’m being charitable.

          • aleph@lemm.ee
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            7 months ago

            In that case, they would have used the present simple, “Hamas don’t take hostages”, but they didn’t.

            I think you simply misunderstood the original statement.

            • TheFonz@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              I could be wrong. I’m happy to take the L. Not a hill I want to die on.