Today, before taking an Uber home, she sent me a text wanting me to be downstairs on the street to greet her as the Uber arrives. I read it and told her that yes, I’ll be there. I didn’t notice any further text because I was in the middle of something.
Later, I hear the door opening and went to our door to greet her, she was furious and refused to talk to me. I realized I forgot to turn my phone back from silent mode after work today. I told her that it is my bad, she still refused to talk to me. At this point, things are still normal for our relationship, she would usually become willing to talk after a while.
I usually go to sleep at 22:30 and she knows, so I thought we’d sort things out tomorrow and went to bed. I woke up in the middle of the night (later I found out it was 1a.m.) to her standing next to my bed (we sleep in separate bedrooms), and she began asking a series of pointed questions: “What would you do if you found out that I was gone?”, “What would you do if the CCTV on our street is broken by chance?”, “What would you tell my mother if I went missing?”, “If I was actually kidnapped, would you kill the guy for me?”
You know, the usual. I thought she’s just angry at me still and wanted to vent, so I went along with her for the time being: “I’d be very worried and look for you everywhere”, “I’d sue the city”, “I’d tell your mother exactly what happened and say I’m sorry”, and “I’d kill the guy who kidnapped you”.
She grumbled and asked a few follow-up questions, like “if you’re planning to kill the guy, what would you do with our cat?” But at this point, I think she’s finding it difficult to stay angry at me. I tell her again that I’m sorry I missed her text, and that next time this happens, she should just call me to make sure I see her text, but she left soon after without acknowledging my apology.
I know I’m in the wrong for missing her text. Not trying to argue otherwise. My question is, am I really responsible if someone kidnaps her between getting off the Uber and getting into our apartment complex? Is she trying to guilt trip me into thinking her anger is justified or am I really a horrible, kidnap-facilitating bad person for missing a few texts?
Edit for context: we live in a pretty safe city that ranks top 10 in the world on low crime rate. Also, thank you all for educating me on what gaslighting actually means. It was 2 in the morning when I posted this, I did not have the energy to find the answer myself.
So, fair warning, I am autistic, but also, I’ve had several multi year relationships with people of differing similarities to this person, here’s my read of this:
This is extremely manipulative and abusive behavior toward you.
You forgot about a text after a hard day of work.
She got angry and refused to speak with you for hours because you missed a text.
And you say this is apparently normal behavior.
That is fucking absurd, to be frank.
Before any of the rest of the story, that alone is bonkers.
Just do the reverse situation in your head. You’re out late for some on location work event, text her and ask if she can be there when you get back home. She forgets.
Would you be so angry or disappointed that you would refuse to speak to her for 3 hours, would that be something she would accept as normal behavior from you, and would she be inclined to blame herself and totally accept this punishment from you as appropriate?
The rest of this story is she wakes you up in the middle and questions you with absurd nonsensical questions that are all specifically designed as loyalty tests.
I had a 3 year relationship with a person like this.
She was schizophrenic, massively physically, mentally and emotionally abusive toward me.
I am of course not going to say your partner is schizophrenic based off of this alone, I am just saying that reading your story immediately sent me back into the mindstate and memories of my own.
It is however clear to me that your acceptance of this kind of behavior as normal, up until the middle of the night nonsense questioning, to me this indicates that she is utterly dominating you into total submission, and you think this is normal.
It is not.
Fucking bail out immediately is what I would do.
It is completely absurd to think that she could somehow have been kidnapped in the 30 seconds between getting out of an uber and walking to your door.
If she actually believed she was in real danger of being kidnapped, she almost certainly would have told you why, and would have asked you to evaluate her why and what to do to prevent it.
Shes fucking grooming you when she guilt trips you into saying you’d murder someone on her account in a totally hypothetical situation that she is taking extremely seriously.
She is trying to make you feel extremely guilty for things that 1) are not and would not be your fault if they occured and 2) have almost 0 chance of actually occurring.
Maybe there is a 1% chance she will open up later and tell you, wow ok, i was really on edge last night, here is why: and then recount an actual, unlikely but possible extremely unnerving situation.
Or, she is cheating on you or has done something you would be greatly displeased with if you found out, and this is all a reflection/distraction technique. She felt guilty so she leaped at any chance to make you into the bad guy.
Again, I obviously cannot say with any certainty that is what is actually going on, but I can certainly say that she is a highly manipulative and abusive person if you find it normal for her to just completely give you the silent treatment for hours for an inconsequential error.
the usual? what the fuck kind of people have you dated so far that asking a series of gone girl fantasy questions in the middle of the night acting like Kathy Bates from Misery is usual?
I was thinking the same thing.
She asked me to murder someone. You know, couples stuff.
I have dated exactly 1 (one) girl. I am her first relationship as well. Maybe we just don’t know what is normal lmao
If there is one lesson I could teach my younger self, it would be to have several low commitment relationships while I was younger to learn what is “normal”. Once you start making murder pacts, it’s usually too late.
Oh well, 7 years too late for me lmao
It’s never too late to break up. People get divorced with really complicated lives and they’re both better off. It will only get worse if you stick around. You should consider therapy together, although I think she really needs it on her own. She has to be willing to change her behavior.
I dated in high-school but now I have been single for like 10 years, I feel so lost now it’s insane
I wish I had good advice for how to connect with people after the school years, that’s just difficult.
Being paralysed by adhd and thus playing video-games all day didn’t really help, I’m hoping to land a job soon and meet new people this way
what is normal lmao
It’s not, she’s crazy. Like “GTFO and block her ASAP” crazy.
This ain’t it. I can smell the batshit from here.
I know I’m in the wrong for missing her text
You are not.
Source: 20 years of a successful marriage.
Your partner has some issues she seems to need to work through. Entertaining her delusions probably won’t help her.
Asking people online if your partner is gaslighting you is serious concern for your situation, whether her behaviors were actually gaslighting or not. Your intuition is telling you something is wayyyyy off. Also, that you had to ask us and not close friends, family, or her herself is another major red flag. Either you are socially isolated and have no one to ask or you are protecting her reputation because you know that those behaviors would be judged quite poorly by people that care about you.
As someone that has dated something like that before, I know my words will not mean much to you. You will undoubtedly rationalize her behavior as her being justifiably triggered, reacting to childhood trauma, making a good point, cute because that’s how she communicates love, etc. Regardless, make a note of what everyone here is telling you. Her behaviors were not acceptable at all. There is no justification for them, and that you said it was the usual is troubling.
The best anyone can do for you now is be a voice of reason and direct you to learn about psychological and emotional abuse so you can see it and decide for yourself. Here are 2 resources that I found helpful when I was in your situation:
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Save Your Sanity is a series of videos/podcasts on being in a relationship with difficult people. She has all sorts of topics that are relevant, including how to spot gaslighting.
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The other is the book Should I Stay or Should I Go? Surviving a Relationship with a Narcissist by Ramani Durvasula. I like this one in particular because it has a questionnaire in it you can take to help you notice of you’re in a toxic relationship. Taking that questionnaire was the catalyst that started my escape. Check it out and be truthful. If she’s okay and this was just a unique experience, then there is nothing to worry about and the book will help you confirm that.
I highly recommend that you don’t tell you partner you are looking into this. Ask anyone that’s been in an abusive relationship. Shoot, make another AskLemmy post asking this. Telling a potential abuser/narcissist/manipulator that you are on to them is a HUGE mistake. Instead, look into it on your own during your free time. If she accidentally catches you, say you ran into this online and it seemed interesting. A healthy partner won’t even think about it anymore. If she starts with an interrogation, gets upset, or suddenly becomes the best girlfriend ever, that’s manipulation.
Certainly, she will commit more odd and questionable behaviors in the future. I urge you to maintain a secret log of her behaviors so that you can stay sane and notice. Please feel free to reach out. Don’t stay isolated. You can make another post, and you can even contact me directly via Matrix (see my profile). Good luck!
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You know, the usual.
I’m sure it’s been said already, but there is nothing usual about what you described. She sounds unstable and you should reconsider this relationship.
But to be pedantic, nothing about what you described sounds even remotely like gaslighting.
It is absolutely needless, unreasonable guilt tripping, though.
Just to clarify your second statement, gaslighting is when person A tries to convince person B that person B did not see/hear/experience something that person B did in fact see, hear, or experience.
In OP’s situation, their girlfriend might be gaslighting OP if she texted “I’m getting an Uber home, see you in a bit” and then got mad and insisted she had told OP to meet her at the door.
All that said, I will echo many others in this thread and say that just because it isn’t gaslighting doesn’t mean OP is in a healthy relationship. OP, please insist on relationship counseling at a minimum.
It sounds like she was concerned about the Uber driver and didn’t feel like you didn’t make her feel safe. I think it’s an overreaction on her part but it’s still real feelings.
You can’t win those arguments, you just have to stay calm and say that you’re sorry for not coming down as she was arriving. Then maybe ask if the driver made her feel uncomfortable or whatever.
She doesn’t want answers, just empathy and a feeling that you care about her safety.
speak Faroese.
Speak Icelandic
speak both and slowly devolve into gibberish
Speak Finnish and then slowly devolve into Estonian
My god, the amount of language I have to learn is monumental it seems
Faroese and Icelandic are mutually intelligible so you can cross one off. :)
If I was actually kidnapped, would you kill the guy for me?
This is a pretty massive red flag right here, IMO. I wouldn’t stick around any person that asks this question. If a person is kidnapped there are like a million other steps you can take that lead to the kidnapper rotting in jail and the victim’s SO not being put in jail for murder.
I hope she (out of anger) autofilled “the worst thing I can think of“ as an attempt to match for “one of the worst things I can think of happening to me”.
A desire for extrajudicial revenge is something I’d expect from really immature people. (In contexts uncommon for me, perhaps I’d expect it from those who’ve been wronged by the justice system, or for those whom the system doesn’t seem to play a productive role in their environment.)
Wonder if there’s a test of sorts that could reveal more here - if someone insults her, would she expect him to “defend her honor” at risk the personal safety of them both?
Eh.
It could be just her going thru possible consequences out loud. Maybe intentionally to drive the point home about what could have happened.
Like, this is some real shit that women do always need to be aware of, and men just never fucking think about, because we don’t have to.
OP could live in a super sketch area where this level of vigilance is warranted and this shit could be going thru her head.
Like from her POV OP didn’t take the risk serious enough to meet her, if he’s not willing to do that, her mind is running thru where the line is on what he would do. You zero into that by asking big questions. And again, it could be to try and set in the possible consequences.
Like, her wanting to know what level of commitment he has to her safety. I doubt it was extrajudicial executions in her mind, and more Liam Niessons style rescue as a rhetorical device.
For a woman a partner who values their security and safety is important both on an instinctual and sadly still practical level. They have a lot more threats then the average dude will ever think about, especially when young and in the dating stages of life. Even married men sometimes don’t learn about it till later when they have kids their responsible for.
… Nah. As a woman, this is not a question I would ever think to ask anyone, regardless of how unsafe I felt. How does agreeing to murder someone AFTER something happens to you help you feel more safe? It doesn’t, at all. Besides, she could have called him from the Uber when she didn’t see him outside. It’s not like they just kick you out of the car immediately.
OP described this behavior as “the usual,” which means this is a thing she does regularly. I would say this isn’t normal for most people to do regularly. If the location is actually not safe, then the conversation should be centered around “when are we going to move somewhere safer?” rather than “how would you murder someone if they hurt me” and especially getting into the specifics of “what would you do with the cat while doing the murder…?” I think this might be some kind of recurring “daycare” or maladaptive fantasy that keeps playing out in her imagination. There are certainly steps she could take to keep herself safe. But because she doesn’t, she feels powerless and then blames OP for her perceived lack of safety. OP cannot be responsible for her safety 24/7. That is an unfair expectation to have of anyone.
I agree with everything you said here except you’re read on that question. There’s a huge area between expecting your partner to take your personal safety seriously, and expecting your partner to kill for you. One of those is a reasonable ask, the other is a reasonable excuse to leave.
and expecting your partner to kill for you.
Some questions are hypothetical or even rhetorical
And honestly on a deeper level there are reasons for women to suddenly go down these hypothetical scenarios related to safety, on a fairly regular basis.
There’s just too much context and subtlies that we can’t know for anyone to give a 100% answer on if a reaction like this is warranted.
Hypothetical and rhetorical questions designed to evoke contemplative but reasoned thought, or absurd hilarities, or a plausible future scenario are one thing.
Its completely different when its an absurd loyalty bullshit test that only has wrong answers.
Answer with loyalty to the point that it endangers your own life?
Ok, status quo.
Answer reasonably, or ask why such ridiculous questions are being asked?
Anger, grief, ammo to use in future arguments.
This scenario was extremely and needlessly combative on the female partner’s part.
Even if this person was legitimately traumatized by past or recent events, that does not make her behavior acceptable.
She was trying to rattle you. Next time answer ridiculous questions with ridiculous answers
None of that is gaslighting. However, it’s a red flag.
Agreed. Sounds like Borderline Personality Disorder. Get her some help, or get far, far away.
No, it doesn’t. Nothing here screams fear of abandonment. It screams insecurity, it screams anxiety, it screams mentally unhealthy, but this doesn’t say anything that could highlight BPD, or any other disorder.
It absolutely does, and I’m getting the vibe this is personal for you. This is not about you.
It absolutely does not. I’m not sure what you guys aren’t reading here, but the very first paragraph is about her wanting HIM to greet her when she arrived home in the Uber.
Being scared of being kidnapped is not fear of abandonment.
Y’all aren’t helping him if you’re telling him the wrong reasons to do the right thing. That ends up hurting both.
I have first hand personal knowledge of Borderline disorder. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Jumping in, I also have a lot of BPD experience (example, a marriage of well over 10 years).
This is very BPD-adjacent. I’m not saying OP’s gf has it per se, because there is no way we can know from here, but this is definitely on brand.
If you read between the lines, the social conversation could written as this:
“Heading home, I need support”
“I’ll support”
<Doesn’t support>
<She feels abandoned, fight or flight kicks in and it turns her attachment-avoidant, results in silent treatment>
<OP gives space, which is interpreted as further abandonment>
<OPGF can’t take it anymore, and asks questions that feel like they’re out of left field because in fight-or-flight kicks in, clear thought is nearly impossible>
<OP finally gives reassurance that he didn’t abandon her>
<Normalcy continues>
[email protected] read through this comment chain, therapy is the answer here.
I don’t think it’s gaslighting. Gaslighting is manipulating someone into questioning their perception of reality. This is being angry at someone.
I can’t really relate. Is it really that dangerous where you live? We probably live in different countries but I don’t have CCTV in the residential area where I live. And usually in the summer, it’s still bright enough at 10pm an people are still around and it’s safe enough for women to walk home alone. At least in most places.
It’s pretty safe where we live afaik, also CCTV is everywhere here especially in and around the big cities.
So, London?
I get that you’re trying to get more info to help OP out better, but I think that it’s better to drop this “where are you from?” talk. Privacy-wise it’s rather problematic, you know? [Sorry for the uncalled advice.]
Lmao it was a joke because London is known for their extremely extensive CCTV network
Then I derped. My bad!
Asking someone their country of residence is privacy intruding? Lol
In the strictest sense perhaps, but I dont think a criminal could make something of the knowledge that I am from Germany.
Asking someone their country of residence is privacy intruding? Lol
I am from Germany
If you were really from Germany, you’d never have given that much personal information up voluntarily!
Eh, at best you could create a shadow profile of me. I scrubbed the internet of my actual identity years ago, but you could probably piece together a semi accurate john doe of me from various bits of information I shared on here over the time.
I know I’m in the wrong for missing her text. Not trying to argue otherwise.
Totally wrong to have your own life. You’re not her legal guardian. You do have responsibilities but constant undivided attention is not one of them.
Yeah, this is seriously manipulative. I actually wouldn’t consider it gaslighting per se, which is a much more specific thing where a person is trying to make you think you’re losing your mind. This is just bog-standard manipulative behavior.
As someone who is in a long-term relationship with a partner who struggled with these kind of issues when we met…
She has to be willing to understand this is a problem, and even if her fears are justified, she needs help, because berating you and being manipulative by asking super loaded questions (especially in the middle of the night, wtf. she needs some work on boundaries, too) is in no way shape or form a normal or healthy aspect of any functioning relationship.
Be ready to accept that sometimes things like manipulative behavior come from things like fears of abandonment. It doesn’t make them okay, but it should give us pause and consider that people aren’t doing it because they want to hurt us. It took me a while to understand my partner was doing things that pushed me away because she was scared of losing me, because it’s totally backwards in my mind. It just means you have to consider the possibility that this isn’t because she’s selfish, but actually potentially dealing with other kinds of mental health issues. She still needs to work on it, and she still needs help for it, but please have a little compassion.
Be willing to go to counseling with her if you want to try to make it work, but she has to be able to see what she has done, show sincere regret, and want to change. It can take time, and everyone deserves that chance, but only if they’re willing to put in the work.
If she’s unable or unwilling to accept how hurtful and manipulative what she did was, and that she at the very least needs counseling, then you need to consider ending it.
EDIT: I should be clear that “putting in the work” means up to and including: getting a mental health diagnosis, getting medication, getting a psychiatrist, getting a counselor whose field is focused on helping people with specifically this diagnosis, and then working through their problems.
My main question is why are you already sleeping in separate bedrooms at this point?
One of many reasons; people are shift workers and keep different hours and don’t want to disturb each others sleep when alarms go off/they get out of bed.
I worked night shift for a year or two, that is indeed why we started sleeping in separate bedrooms. Right now, our schedule is still a 1-2 hours apart, enough for us to want to sleep in separate bedrooms.
Absolutely wild lmao. I understand how it starts with opposite schedules but damn. My girl clocks in an hour earlier than me but also wakes up at least a couple before me for her morning ritual. I literally don’t even hear her alarms at this point. You know I’m getting them cuddles.
Although hard to be encouraging getting them cuddles here – your tolerance for intolerable behavior from your significant other is beyond what I’d endure. Obviously just seeing a small slice of the relationship, but yeah nah I don’t play like that.
After a few relationships my tolerance for bullshit drama is mighty low. Love my chill gal who down to earth and behaves like a reasonable adult.
It’s not like we’re constantly at odds with each other as well, normally I’d go to her bed, or she’d come to mine for a while before I sleep to “get them cuddles” as you put it.
For sure, you definitely know your relationship better than I do. Keep an eyeball on how much the drama and loyalty tests, etc, pop up tho.
No shade, rooting for ye, all the best 🤙
She is emotionally abusing you.
- She needs therapy.
- If she doesnt get therapy, sadly, the relationship needs to end. In this situation, be prepared to get a restraining order.
I can’t relate as well, as I live in a city where things are really really aafe. But there are places where a women are afraid to walk alone in the dark, even for a few steps. (And even in safe places some people are quite afraid)
I’d be very careful with remote diagnosis. You. might be right, she needs therapy. She might just be afraid, because something bad happened to her some time.
The only way is for OP to have a good talk with her what’s bothering her - and then he may come to a conclusion. As of now, there’s just not enough information.
It’s true that the place may be dangerous. However, if it were, (1) you’d think OP would have known that already and not made the mistake of letting her walk in alone, and (2) she didn’t have to start with the absurd questioning in the middle of the night. She could have waited for a time when both of them were more mentally available.
I’ve been in dangerous cities and situations. You either address issues in the moment or if it’s no longer an immediate issue, whenever it’s a good time. They sleep in separate rooms, yet was standing over him in the kiddle of the night, then once he woke up, she started with an angry guilt trip disguised as fear. That was 100% her punishing him so that he wouldn’t ever not make her the priority at all times again.
Yes, I’m hedging it off her making up a new reason, the cat, to stay angry.
And that he already has a whole sentence of things he knows he has to say.
“What would you do if you found out that I was gone?”, “What would you do if the CCTV on our street is broken by chance?”, “What would you tell my mother if I went missing?”, “If I was actually kidnapped, would you kill the guy for me?”
You know, the usual.
Are you ok? Blink twice if you’re ok
