I often use the word people to mean multiple persons. However, I’ve noticed that sometimes people will laugh/smirk when I use it. For example, one time I was talking about how my sister and her family/household travel often, saying, “Those people travel a lot,” and the person repeated those people and gave a slight laugh. I’m wondering if I may be giving some sort of unintentional implied message when I use that word.
Does the word people mean anything other than multiple persons, such as a group of persons united by a common identity (family, experience, nationality, ethnicity, etc.)?
For example, one time I was talking about how my sister and her family/household travel often, saying, “Those people travel a lot,” and the person repeated those people and gave a slight laugh. I’m wondering if I may be giving some sort of unintentional implied message when I use that word.
I joke around friends who accidentally phrase things in ways that could sound like bigotry/racism if taken out of context, and it sounds like that it what the person was laughing about.
‘Those people’, when used while judging or looking down on somebody is a common way for bigots and racists to avoid using slurs around non-bigots/racists. Something like “The park was a lot more fun before those people showed up.” while nodding in the direction of some people with darker skin. Or saying that ‘those people’ are doing something unacceptable.
It isn’t a people vs persons thing, it is specifically the phrase ‘those people’.
When I say “those people” I mean people who don’t pick up their dogshit or don’t put their cart away and are fully capable lol
It’s not “people vs persons” but “those people vs they”.
Conversationally, “those/these” distances you from the group you are talking about, which is humorously weird when it’s your family you’re talking about.
It’s not the meaning of the words, but habitual (and often fleeting) attribution around them that tripped you up.
PS: “People” are uncountable, “persons” are countable. That’s basically the whole difference between the two plurals. Although it’s rapidly disappearing, as “ten people” won’t raise a single eyebrow in a conversation.
Persons is used in a more formal context like legal document. People is used in conversations. This is generally speaking of course.
I could be wrong here but it may be that your sister is not laughing at your use of the word since it’s actually correct. it could be she’s laughing at your generalization of “those people” as that can sometimes be seen as condescending or derogatory.
she’s laughing at your generalization of “those people” as that can sometimes be seen as condescending or derogatory.
Yeah, that’s what I’m realizing from the responses to this question. Thanks for pointing that out. Btw, it wasn’t my sister laughing. It was my supervisor at work that was laughing when I referred to my sister and her group as those people. Oopsies!
I don’t think you would use Persons as the alternative there - just “they”. My sister and her friends, wow they travel a lot!
I think it’s like the difference between “fish” and “fishes.”
“Fish” refers to a group of the same type of fish, but if there are several groups of many types of fish, you would say “fishes.”
This guy Englishes!
My understanding is that “persons” refers to people in discrete groups, where what separates those groups is pertinent to the topic being discussed.
For example - ‘indigenous persons’ refers collectively to indigenous people, but acknowledges that there are separate subgroups of indigenous people within that. You could equally say “indigenous people” and it would be correct but you lose that nuance by not acknowledging that there are internal divisions within the group you are referring to.
Not saying that’s the dictionary definition, but that’s how it’s generally used in my field.
You’d get even weirder looks if you said “those persons travel a lot”, while also sounding like someone who doesn’t really speak the language.
“Those people” can be a racist or classist dog whistle, but isn’t always, and also there isn’t really an alternative. Say what you’re going to say, and don’t worry too much about it. The people who would misinterpret it to fit an agenda are probably going to do so regardless of what words you use.
“Those people” can be a racist or classist dog whistle, but isn’t always, and also there isn’t really an alternative.
The vast majority of the time ‘they’ or ‘them’ works in the same sentence as ‘those people’ when refering a goup since you already need context for who you are referring to. I can’t even think of an example where they or them doesn’t fit.
Description of a group of white people from Georgia.
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I heard they like fried chicken.
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I heard those people like fried chicken.
Hell, the second one sounds racist even after making it clear I was talking about white people, and I typed the words!
This must be an American thing because adding those doesn’t suddenly make a sentence sound more racist to me or have any connotations.
I can hear it and am not American.
Try snubbing your nose while saying"those people"
I can’t think of any sayings or phrasings that would be universal across the entire globe.
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“People” is a generic term for more than one person.
“Persons” denotes a singular distinct grouping of people. Ie, Native American persons.
Not part of the question, but “peoples” is used for a plurality of distinct persons. Ie, “this had great impact on the various peoples of North America” would be a sentence to lead into a discussion on how an event had varying impacts on each unique cultural group in North America. This is largely only used in academics, specifically anthropology and sometimes sociology, but understand this use helps clear up the reason for the distinction between “people” and “persons”.
“People” is a generic term for more than one person.
“Persons” denotes a singular distinct grouping of people. Ie, Native American persons.
Are you sure about that? Cause it sounds like you’ve never spoken to a native English speaker about the terms here.
A group of persons with a commonality are a people. The individuals are persons within a group. You can say “a group of people”, but that’s different (like a sheep vs. a flock of sheep and also a distraction here). The group is a people. People is not a generic term for multiple persons, it’s implicitly a group with some commonality. Nobody says “the American persons”, it’s “the American people”. The “various peoples of North America” would refer to a plurality of various and distinct groups of persons.
I am literally an English teacher, and have spent years editing university papers for English as an additional language learners. Yes, I am sure.
Sure you are. God I hope you’re lying because your flippant arrogance is a toxic quality for a teacher to demonstrate like this. This person wasn’t asking for an anthropologist’s academic use of people vs. persons.
peoples /pē′pəl/
Plural form of people
noun Humans considered as a group or in indefinite numbers. Often treated as a plural of person, especially in compounds. “People were dancing in the street. I met all sorts of people. This book is not intended for laypeople.” The mass of ordinary persons; the populace. Used with the. **A body of persons **living in the same country under one national government; a nationality. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition • More at Wordnik
peoples plural of people (“a race, group or nationality”) The course studies the history of Africa and the peoples who lived there.
I’m not sure if you found my original statements challenging to follow, but nothing you’ve said contradicts what I’ve said. Parts of the definitions I’ve provided are strewn in the definitions you’ve provided, and differing definitions of specific word case isn’t unusual, even within similiar cultures. Language is fluid, and the same words can mean a lot of different things.
There is often a gap between common-use language, and the academic function of words (see “racism”). This is why I emphasized the relation of the definitions I provided to the fields of anthropology and sociology, as well as why I stated it is a use almost exclusively found, in my experiences, in academia.
I don’t appreciate the strange, ignorant, tongue-in-cheek jabs at my background. If you think I have something wrong I welcome you to say so, but the strange sense of superiority you’ve attached to your comments is unnessecarily insulting.
