Man, I’m so glad this global warming thing is leftist propaganda or I’d really be freaking out right now.
Luckily, we can choose to reject reality and believe whatever makes us feel better.
I feel best believing the biosphere is gonna force humanity to “find out” for the last century of fuckin around with a recklessly unplanned terraform.
Love how the collective of humanity needs to find out because the richest few fucked around.
You can always find these people and make them find out. They are actively committing genocide against the human race.
But the rich are supplying a demand. And a ton of innovation wouldn’t be there without them.
Imagine thinking CEOs drive innovation lmao
Why does it seem like there are a ton more conservatives here on Lemmy than there were on Reddit?
My theory is they just had a habit of getting banned so they weren’t as visable
I don’t know how I feel about it. On one hand, it makes for less of an echo chamber. On the other hand, their thoughts are fucking stupid and it hurts my brain to see them.
But they kinda do. Imagine Samsung or Apple stopping innovation. Company goes bankrupt.
Oh brother
Man I am kinda sorry, that I invade your worldview.
But rich people don’t have all their money stored in a vault like Dagobert Duck. It’s all stocks.
And boy, if one of the companies make losses, then their money goes downhill. It’s volatile.
And due to immense concurrence in innovation in the tech sector, every investor has a huge interest in innovation.
And with many investment, the start of a company is ensured.
The current capitalism is the system that works best.
Especially the US capitalism is one hell of a driver in innovation. I live in Germany and many companies wouldn’t be possible here. Even though we have capitalism, it’s much softer than its US counterpart.
The downside of course is poverty for cheaper labour.
And that’s brutal, but it’s the reality we live in.
Though I wouldn’t want to live in the US without healthcare, on the counter side I wouldn’t want to start a company here in Europe.
Ribbit
I give you that. Just a few were directly involved in innovation.
But the rich do quite successfully create the framework conditions for innovation and development. Mostly driven by profit, but a world based purely on goodwill fails at the first doubter, the first who does not want to participate. So capitalism is what we got. And so far it has proven to be more resilient than other systems.
Are you sure it’s not the demand driving the demand? The rich are the supply-side of “supply and demand”.
Demand driving the demand?
Does needing something increase the need for it by itself into infinite need?
The demand side of the economy is the consumer population. The consumers decide what they do and do not want to purchase, therefore driving demand.
“Infinite need” implies that infinite supply could exist, or that infinite growth is sustainable, both of which are not true. Infinite need also doesn’t exist.
I will argue that people (for example) needing clean water increases the demand for clean water. This is why companies like Nestle are profiteering off of selling bottled water, and why the CEO said that water should not be a human right.
Wait. But someone has to bottle the water, right? Or is nestle supposed to do it for free?
Furthermore they have to compete with tap water. So the value of bottled water can only be the water itself + bottle + energy used to fill bottle + interest because their “service” is not for free. There is a justified interest to make a profit from one’s efforts.
My uber driver said that global warming is actually true but have literally nothing about human influence.
Some years ago these persons were saying that global warming was a hoax, now that only the human influence is a hoax.
I always hated that argument from people.
Even if they’re right — which we all know they are not — it wouldn’t matter. Climate change is going to devastate human life if we do nothing. If, somehow, the source of the warming wasn’t human-caused, we’d still need to find a way to counteract it. It’s not our fault doesn’t prevent it from being our problem.
“it has nothing to do with human influence”
“Ok, then let’s prepare for the inevitable, strengthen infrastructure, prepare for mass migrations, improve our crops to sustain bigger variances in weather, evacuate people from flood danger zones, ensure our supply chain doesn’t collapse, fund poor countries so they can survive better, etc. You know, prepare for the crisis”
:|
>:(
Ahhh, yes. The conservative backpedalling.
It’s not happening. It’s happening but it’s all cyclical. It’s not cyclical this time but it’s not our fault. It’s our fault but global warming is good ackshually. Global warming is bad but there’s nothing we can do about it. We could do something about it but it’s too expensive/late. Maybe it’s not too expensive but THE CHINESE!
In stage one we say nothing is going to happen.
Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.
In stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there’s nothing we can do.
Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it’s too late now.
The sad thing is we’re supposed to be in a ice age. The plant is further away from the sun about the same plane since the last ice age.
Had a argument with a person on YouTube, he thought that increased CO2 in the atmosphere would be beneficial. It would help plants grow better!
Also that humans was not behind it.
They might grow bigger, but I don’t think they grow better. Veritasium did a video about the increase in CO2 having an effect on plants.
BuT CO2 iS pLaNt FoOd! Why do you hate plants!
What I hear some acquaintances say is like “who cares, I’ll go to the beach, turn the AC on, what’s the big deal” .
As if the floods we had in Italy this year, or the wild fires, or the storms, or the draughts, or the Alps without snow, the glaciers disappeared, the sea turned green, the invasion of jellyfish weren’t connected.
Some people, most people, are just too fucking stupid.
Ribbit
To be fair, I think both sides blow it out of proportion and that can stifle discussion. It won’t be the “end of the world” where everyone will die, but we will have the “end of the world” as we know it.
I think one of the main points that need to be stressed to the kind of people in your example would be droughts.
Droughts will continue to get worse and will affect everyone. With a bad enough drought, we won’t be able to feed entire cities. And that’s when things really start to fall apart.
I used to be subbed to /r/collapse. I see world news is covering that for me.
Well, there’s [email protected]
How long have they been recording? I assume there’s no records from all that long ago. Being as how humans, and measurement especially are a fairly new thing.
Per NASA, accurate global readings go back to 1880 and historical localized temperatures go back to the 1650s
Not much in the grand scheme of things. There was an ice age not that long ago. Nature does some funny shit.
You might wanna do some research into why ice ages and interglacial periods happened.
Spoiler alert: it’s the composition of the air.
My brother in Christ. We’re supposed to be in an Ice Age now.
The trailing end of an ice age anyway.
Nature doesn’t do shit this funny.
Is this comment satire?
Not even Lemmy is safe from climate change deniers.
But he doesn’t deny climate change, he denies that man has such a big influence on him. Or maybe he denies the theory that nature itself is not able to regulate temperature. After all, uncomfortable for a human does not mean uncomfortable for nature as a whole.
Well I look forward to his contribution questioning the established science in the Journal Nature Reviews Earth & Environment. He should direct his profound expertise and diligent work appropriately.
Publish : https://mts-natrevearthenviron.nature.com/cgi-bin/main.plex
Right - we humans are generally most concerned with what’s “comfortable”. That’s a fun spin on “being able to live”. The earth will be fine with or without us, we’re just doing a good job of shooting for “without”.
Here is a graphic to help visualize the unprecedented rate of temp change. Data source for temperature is cited and likely errors are explained. https://xkcd.com/1732/
It’s actually worse than that. We are not in the predicted path, we are in one of the worst estimated predicted paths. Understandable as that comic was made in 2012.
Can’t stand those comics. Thanks but no thanks.
Dang climate change denial is one thing but speaking ill of xkcd on the internet are you a fucking madman?
But I have been recycling like they asked me too. Who’s not doing their part? Oh wait …
Recycling metals is good, especially aluminum. Recycling glass? Not bad. Recycling plastic? That is literally something the oil industry forced by having their resin codes look almost exactly like the recycling symbol. People understandingly confused the resin codes to mean it was recyclable and flooded recycling centers with plastic. So instead of throwing it in the garbage and telling people plastic is not recyclable, they did what they could to recycle it. Sorting and cleaning was a pain in the ass and made it not worth it…in the US. China was happy to accept it for a couple decades until a few years ago. Now most recycling centers only accept plastic with a reason code of 1 or 2. But people do not really check the number on the symbol. A lot of it is 5 which is not recyclable in the vast majority of places but people still toss that into recycling because they think it has the recycling symbol on it. So recycling centers have to sort that shit out and send it to the landfill. It is a massive waste of resources that the oil companies are fine with since people think they are doing their part.
Recycling in general though was not supposed to be a fix for climate change. While recycling things like aluminum is significantly more energy efficient than mining, the bigger issue there is the mine itself.
Recycling plastic is more so a lie fed by the plastic manufacturers.
In general I feel like no one really takes a holistic view of this and everyone just points fingers. If indeed all the models are correct and human-produced CO2 is causing global warming, it’s not just “corporations” or “the rich” or just individuals, it’s the whole of the machine of humanity hacking away at the tree branch they’re sitting on, and we need to radically shift our energy production to eliminate greenhouse gas externalities, and ideally figure out, what’s it called, CO2 sequestration or whatever, to bring it back to normal.
And to the degree we can’t shift immediately, we shouldn’t just be burning fossil fuels towards ends we don’t even need, like dumb luxury goods or just driving in circles. It does come down to all of us as individuals - some of us have more power than others (yeah, more or less proportionally to wealth), but the buck has to stop somewhere.
Of course it is, but consumers generally don’t make the decisions about resource procurement and manufacturing. They only drive the demand. However, demand is also heavily shaped by both the cultural zeitgeist as well as marketing, which is in turn funded by corporations.
So in effect, it all comes down to corporations.
Well - corporations are funded by everyone, under the legal framework of the ostensibly democratic government, to which extent it’s not democratic, it’s at the mercy of the population choosing to continue perpetuating its existence. My point here is that the entire thing is just humanity working in a self-destructive way, and even when there are power imbalances in practice, real power - think of it like potential energy in physics - is truly democratic.
Corporations are certainly NOT democratic. If anything, their corporate hierarchy of management and ownership is… capitalist. It’s a top-down structure that concentrates wealth in the ha ds of a few to the detriment of the workers, always resulting in class conflict.
Democracies allow them to exist because it’s the only efficient way for civilians to organize profitable industry.
That’s…not what I wrote.
Someone at work said “If climate change is real, then why don’t rich people sell their beach properties?”
And before you ask, yes they are a boomer.
But they actually are… Down in Miami, wealthy people are fleeing the beachfront property and buying up housing where all the poor people live, which also happens to be further from the beach. There have been a number of documentaries and news segments on this trend which you can easily find on YouTube.
Oh it doesn’t matter. They’re just repeating the same old tired debunked points from other bigots that also think climate change is a scam. Nothing will ever convince these types of people.
“Sell their houses to who, Ben? Fucking Aquaman?”
(reference at 4m21s) (piped.video link)
Edit: fixed link
The planet isn’t going anywhere. We are!
- Carlin
We are so fucked. And this is only the beginning.
Considering here in Winnipeg, Canada, where it reaches -35C or even colder, it was pretty wild having weeks on end of +30C to even +39C temperatures, and so soon into our summer.
I never want to complain about the heat when we have snow for 7 months, but that was ridiculous.
The upper Midwest really has some of the worst weather in North America. Get schlonged by freezing temps and snow for 6 months followed by heat for another 6 months.
I genuinely don’t understand, no disrespect intended but why do you remain there? Could you not just move south to a warmer climate? -39c just sounds uninhabitable.
I will gladly, cheerfully, trade any 39c day for a -39c day. Cold is easily manageable with more / better clothes. Even when dressed for the heat, it still saps your energy like crazy and makes you feel like shit in the process.
I’ve essentially given up that our planet, or the human race is gonna survive another few generations. It literally all feels so empty and I have no desire to have kids who will ultimately have to live through the boiling temperatures. Either population collapse, or the planet dying off will result in society falling apart.
Yeah, sad thing is we are already signed up for the next 20 years, as in even if we stopped emitting everything tomorrow, we would still have +2°C in 20 years…
And how realistic is stopping everything tomorow?
+3°C… we would need to have a new coronavirus crisis every years, not just a new one, but stack them on top, in terms of emissions. Ofc you can’t have more then one global confinement at a time (doesn’t make sense to double confine someone) so that wouldn’t even work.
We. Are. Fucked.
We aren’t locked in for the next twenty years, only the next ten years.
We could build a thousand RBMK like nuclear reactors in a decade and then suck out 50 ppm of CO2 out of the atmosphere in another decade.
Would cost $500B to $1T or so.
We just don’t really think global warming is serious enough to warrant an action plan at the scale of the Manhattan project, Apollo program or Messmer plan.
We’re not locked in for the next 20 years. Not for the next 10.
The carbon in the atmosphere is going to be there for the next millenium and the temperature won’t level out till the 2100s if we stopped all carbon emission right this second.
Furthermore, if we did stop all emissions right now, the planet would get 0.5-1.5 °C hotter within a year or two due to the end of the aerosol pollution cooling effect that’s been cutting the effects of carbon induced climate change in half this whole time.
This year is so hot because they put limitations on sulfur emissions from shipping boats in the Pacific. Those emissions were cooling the atmosphere, but the aerosol emissions (which that sulfur is one of) only last in the atmosphere for about 2 weeks before they’re rained out of the air.
We’re fucked.
So can’t we reintroduce the sulfur?
It was taken out because the pollution was directly responsible for tens of thousands of deaths per year. If we need to geoengineer an aerosol to cool the planet, we can do better.
Deaths from increasing temperatures are estimated to be in the hundreds of thousands a year already, how many of those could the aerosols have prevented? Was that more or less than tens of thousands?
I’m not saying it can’t be done or it shouldn’t necessarily, I’m just trying to express why this decision happened at a political level. Politics only occasionally leads humanity to the logical course of action.
Removing CO2 from the atmosphere is a speculative technology at the moment.
Like, yes, we “can” do it, if you ignore all the materials and energy needed to perform that process. And that’s just in theory, in practice its bound to be far more difficult.
No matter how you put it, it’s easier to just… Not release the pollution in the first place. If it’s too difficult to stop polluting, it will certainly be too difficult to remove that pollution that has been already released. Entropy and all that.
Removing CO2 from the atmosphere is something we should only really start thinking about when the world already runs nearly entirely cleanly.
You ignore political realities.
An Apollo scale program to extract carbon emissions from the atmosphere could be financed by the OECD countries without heavily impacting their economies.
Building a thousand nuclear plants with reduced safety requirements in a remote place would not run into NIMBY problems.
Stopping emissions globally would require Chinese political will, since they emit more than all of the OECD combined.
Ocean surface temps are super high too.
Oops. Posted wrong pic at first.
We’re having such a great time… 🫠 🫠 🫠 🫠
This is super scary, more than the atmosphere. We know this was happening but this fast means accelerated extinctions and faster disruption of the world ecosystem.
It would’ve been so easy to fix it if we didn’t live in a profit driven society.
Fuck capitalism…
I feel like we’re watching zombies slowly lurching towards us, but there’s people pretending it’s totally normal and nothing to worry about.
we’re watching zombies slowly lurching towards us, but there’s people pretending it’s totally normal and nothing to worry about.
If 2020 Gave Us Zombies Instead Of A Pandemic. It was pretty depressing in realizing how easy we could solve crises, but we can’t, since some politicians prefer talking points, and too many sheep happily follow. And measures against the pandemic were just a temporary inconvenience, while the climate crisis seems to be here to stay, growing stronger every day.
Sad but true. Politicians in general appear to be a spineless lot, appealing only to their corporate donors.
Stupid thing is that it’s locally so cold that I had to turn the heat back on last week after having it off for two months. Just a few weeks back I had to bring the fans down from the attic to stay cool. Shit is just weird. This summer is going to be fucked. There’s also not the usual pollen or insects.
Anyway, if you’re interested in visiting Denmark as a tourist, I can currently only recommend mid May or early September. The remaining 47 weeks of the year are “normal” 10°c and windy rain regardless of seasons.
but it’s summer duhhhh
- Republicans
Whataboutism, the west contributes significantly more per capita than China. Yes they should be doing more but it’s better focused elsewhere
