I have a question but I want to make it clear that I am asking in good faith as I fumble my way through understanding the complexities of geopolitics, and I am not casting aspersions or pushing a conspiracy theory. I am especially not taking a position in defense of Israel, or against their accountability to the ICC.
Okay, that said: Is South Africa pushing this at the behest of Russia, like as a BRICS thing? The only other thing I can think of is that this helps improve the image of an embattled ANC at home.
I get why they have a unique perspective given their defeat of apartheid, and that’s likely the steelman for why they are advancing this, but that just seems like too pat of an answer.
I suspect whats going on here is that the South Africans know what kind of people Zionists are, since the old apartheid government used to partner with them.
As horrible as South African apartheid was, what is happening to the Palestinans is degrees worse.
Ordinary South Africans still remember the deep damage Apartheid perpetrators inflicted on us, it’s poisonous remnants are still affecting us as a country to this day as we try to heal as a people.
Now imagine South Africans seeing what Israel is perpetrating against the Palestinians, now and in the past. It’s a punch to the gut, a searing pain, to see what was done to us and our parents being done to Palestinians. We’re seeing a gross refined version of Apartheid that was inflicted on us being inflicted on the Palestinians. And largely the so called west/ global north is cheering for the Israeli Apartheid regime commiting genocide. It makes me sick to my core.
For these reasons there is immense pressure on our government by civil society to denounce Israel and support Palestine. It does help that the ANC has always been pro Palestinian in the first place. Also it’s elections this year so the ANC definitely wants some good pr too.
I would say that these points factor in way more than any link to Russia or China
I’ve heard Irish people say they support Palestine for similar reasons. They didn’t go through an apartheid, but they went through oppressive colonization being done on them.
An additional perspective is that the Apartheid government became an ally of convenience with Israel to the point that they created a joint nuclear weapons program together. Then you have the political pressure African union states have for maintaining robust trading agreements with Arab states. There’s a ton of history there
I don’t think it’s a BRICS thing at all. It’s what their own population want. South Africa has long been critical of apartheid in Israel.
Moreover back when South Africa was under Apartheid, for a long time Israel was one of its main trading partners even after the west had imposed sanctions, and it also contributed directly to the white military. They eventually joined the boycott but the damage was done.
Have you just never experienced what manners are good online discourse look like? I admit its rare thing, but your statement reads like you’re looking at a filet mignon and asking why its missing a leaf of iceberg lettuce, a dollop of ketchup, and a sesame seed bun.
Let’s just say that, hypothetically, the OP didn’t hold a pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli viewpoint. In that case, would they have to lie and add those disclaimers in order to be “well mannered”?
My point is that anyone should be able to ask a simple question about why South Africa are the ones filing this case at the ICJ. It shouldn’t matter what their overarching beliefs are, nor should they be required to submit their liberal bona fides before they are allowed ask the question.
I have a question but I want to make it clear that I am asking in good faith as I fumble my way through understanding the complexities of geopolitics, and I am not casting aspersions or pushing a conspiracy theory. I am especially not taking a position in defense of Israel, or against their accountability to the ICC.
Okay, that said: Is South Africa pushing this at the behest of Russia, like as a BRICS thing? The only other thing I can think of is that this helps improve the image of an embattled ANC at home.
I get why they have a unique perspective given their defeat of apartheid, and that’s likely the steelman for why they are advancing this, but that just seems like too pat of an answer.
I would love additional perspectives on this.
I suspect whats going on here is that the South Africans know what kind of people Zionists are, since the old apartheid government used to partner with them.
As horrible as South African apartheid was, what is happening to the Palestinans is degrees worse.
Ordinary South Africans still remember the deep damage Apartheid perpetrators inflicted on us, it’s poisonous remnants are still affecting us as a country to this day as we try to heal as a people.
Now imagine South Africans seeing what Israel is perpetrating against the Palestinians, now and in the past. It’s a punch to the gut, a searing pain, to see what was done to us and our parents being done to Palestinians. We’re seeing a gross refined version of Apartheid that was inflicted on us being inflicted on the Palestinians. And largely the so called west/ global north is cheering for the Israeli Apartheid regime commiting genocide. It makes me sick to my core.
For these reasons there is immense pressure on our government by civil society to denounce Israel and support Palestine. It does help that the ANC has always been pro Palestinian in the first place. Also it’s elections this year so the ANC definitely wants some good pr too.
I would say that these points factor in way more than any link to Russia or China
I’ve heard Irish people say they support Palestine for similar reasons. They didn’t go through an apartheid, but they went through oppressive colonization being done on them.
An additional perspective is that the Apartheid government became an ally of convenience with Israel to the point that they created a joint nuclear weapons program together. Then you have the political pressure African union states have for maintaining robust trading agreements with Arab states. There’s a ton of history there
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vela_incident
Thank you for this!
I don’t think it’s a BRICS thing at all. It’s what their own population want. South Africa has long been critical of apartheid in Israel.
Moreover back when South Africa was under Apartheid, for a long time Israel was one of its main trading partners even after the west had imposed sanctions, and it also contributed directly to the white military. They eventually joined the boycott but the damage was done.
Only on Lemmy would you need to add all of those disclaimers before asking a legitimate question.
Perhaps, but I was conditioned more by reddit than Lemmy, as were likely most of us.
Or a person sees shitbots parroting Kremlin and CCP talking points all across the web and wants to avoid getting lumped in with them.
Have you just never experienced what manners are good online discourse look like? I admit its rare thing, but your statement reads like you’re looking at a filet mignon and asking why its missing a leaf of iceberg lettuce, a dollop of ketchup, and a sesame seed bun.
Let’s just say that, hypothetically, the OP didn’t hold a pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli viewpoint. In that case, would they have to lie and add those disclaimers in order to be “well mannered”?
My point is that anyone should be able to ask a simple question about why South Africa are the ones filing this case at the ICJ. It shouldn’t matter what their overarching beliefs are, nor should they be required to submit their liberal bona fides before they are allowed ask the question.
That’s not good manners, that’s an echo chamber.
The point is that what you described is not unique to lemmy.