Obviously I can understand why mysoginists are hated upon, As their belief is all women are trash or men are superior etc. But why are incels also generally hated upon? They are lacking in a way that makes them unable to gey in a relationship, but that shouldn’t necessarily mean they are mysoginists, right?

What am I missing here? I haven’t ever had a relationship with a woman, but I don’t hate all women either. I just consider myself unlucky. Does that make me an incel?

  • Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee
    0·
    9 months ago

    Go actually learn about the viewpoint then. The only one on a high horse is the person making egregious false equivalencies to dilute a very real fear that women have to live with.

    And besides that, I’d like to see you argue your “that viewpoint is dangerous” stance to a couple of parents who are nervous about sending their daughter to a sleepover where the only authority figure is a grown man.

    If you really don’t get why there’s a problem with that, maybe ask a woman in your life.

    In the mean time, take your misplaced anger somewhere else. I won’t be responding to it anymore.

    • beardown@lemm.ee
      0·
      9 months ago

      Fear based on immutable traits is always wrong. Not a difficult concept. Kind of the basis of the equal protection clause and liberalism in general

      • Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee
        0·
        9 months ago

        Additionally, I really don’t feel like rehashing every single point I just made with the other guy because you also think it’s a matter of whether you agree or not. I linked resources. I spelled it out several times, honestly more thoroughly than I should have.

        I urge you to look into it yourself. Seek what women actually say and feel and fight the urge to just tell them they are wrong because you feel personally attacked. It’s not personal.

        I’m out.

        • beardown@lemm.ee
          0·
          9 months ago

          Anyone who stereotypes anyone based on immutable traits is wrong. If there are individual women who do this to men then they are wrong. Same as any white person who would do this to an Asian person.

          All humans are individuals and should be treated as such. Being prejudiced against an entire race/sex/sexual orientation is wrong under all circumstances

            • beardown@lemm.ee
              0·
              9 months ago

              You’re literally defending bigotry. And you seem to be doing so because you think women are infallible.

              Which is sexist. Women aren’t any more or less moral than men. They’re all just people. Immutable traits do not bestow moral clarity or hidden knowledge. To think otherwise is extremely bigoted

              • june@lemmy.worldEnglish
                0·
                9 months ago

                To put it out there, bigotry is defined as:

                obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group

                The reason this isn’t bigotry is outlined pretty clearly here: https://www.nsvrc.org/statistics

                In case you don’t want to open the link:

                1 in 5 women experience rape, and 33% of them were raped between 11-13

                81% of women experience sexual harassment

                There’s nothing obstinate or unreasonable about women treading lightly around men. Nearly all women experience unwanted and/or aggressive sexual advances from men. Being cautious of men is the right and reasonable thing to do.

                  • Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee
                    01·
                    9 months ago

                    You can’t help but draw a false equivalency to make your points, I’m glad it isn’t just with me.

                    Here’s the thing, neither lgbt people nor Muslims are defined by their physical superiority to the other. That’s why it’s a false equivalency.

                    Furthermore, the argument isn’t “all women should be distrustful of all men all the time because of the rapists”, it’s “women have a reason to, at their discretion and in times of vulnerability, be cautious of men”

                    It’s not comparable.

                  • june@lemmy.worldEnglish
                    01·
                    9 months ago

                    The vast majority of Muslims in the west, like Christians, are ideologically against folks that are LGBTQ, but they aren’t out there assaulting 81% of LGBTQ people. This, like the other commenter is saying, is a false equivalence and not relevant.

              • Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee
                01·
                9 months ago

                👍

                (Framing what I said as defending bigotry does not change reality. It’s preposterous to assert that women should not take precautions against the worst case scenario because someone’s feelings might get hurt)

                (I’m out for real this time. Seriously consider taking on a woman’s perspective)

                • beardown@lemm.ee
                  0·
                  9 months ago

                  You’re making the same fallacious argument that racists make about why whites need to avoid blacks. Or why Christians need to avoid dealings with Jews. You’re a bigot whether you realize it or not.

                  • Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee
                    01·
                    9 months ago

                    Actually, no. I’m going to take 5 minutes and address this one through example.

                    Women aren’t afraid of men because they have a penis, which is the thing that makes them a man. They are afraid of men because men are biologically armed.

                    Let me spell it out for you, although I’m certain this endeavor ultimately isn’t going to get any response from you except the quintessential “nuh uh”:

                    1. You are being approached by a nondescript person with a rifle pointed at you. That doesn’t concern you at all? You don’t know he’s going to pull the trigger, and he probably won’t anyway because that would land him in prison.

                    But by your logic if you take any measure to avoid him you are a bigot against people with guns

                    1. Now you’re looking to cross the street. You look both ways and notice cars are coming. You deduce that they would most likely see and avoid you if you just walk out in the middle of the road, but there’s still the chance you might get hit.

                    But by your logic you are being a bigot against people who drive if you decide not to cross the road

                    1. Now you are a woman walking to your car from the gym. There is a man parked next to you waiting by his car for seemingly no reason. You noticed him staring at you when you were on the treadmill. You tell yourself he probably won’t do anything because there’s cameras, but trying to get to your car door makes you nervous.

                    By your logic you would be a bigot if you decided not to go back to your car

                    This situation actually happened to my mother-in-law. That man tried to grab her and came on to her.

                    If you say “Well Seasoned_Greetings, it’s OBVIOUSLY not the same situation in the first two examples because those situations are ACTUALLY DANGEROUS”, then you are running head first into the point and still missing it.

                    Men are armed. They cannot disarm. Women aren’t afraid in the same way of men in wheel chairs, or men they can clearly get away from, or even outnumber.

                    If you really, truly can’t understand why women take precautions, there’s nothing more I can say to you. It’s not bigotry to be aware that you can be overpowered and fear for your own safety. Full stop.

                    Accusing this mindset of bigotry only really highlights to people who get it that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

                    Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to go to bed.