Bangladeshi residents and others in Monfalcone say decisions to prohibit worship at cultural centres and banning burkinis at the beach is part of anti-Islam agenda
The envelope containing two partially burned pages of the Qur’an came as a shock. Until then, Muslim residents in the Adriatic port town of Monfalcone had lived relatively peacefully for more than 20 years.
Addressed to the Darus Salaam Muslim cultural association on Via Duca d’Aosta, the envelope was received soon after Monfalcone’s far-right mayor, Anna Maria Cisint, banned prayers on the premises.
“It was hurtful, a serious insult we never expected,” said Bou Konate, the association’s president. “But it was not a coincidence. The letter was a threat, generated by a campaign of hate that has stoked toxicity.”
Monfalcone’s population recently passed 30,000. Such a positive demographic trend would ordinarily spell good news in a country grappling with a rapidly declining birthrate, but in Monfalcone, where Cisint has been nurturing an anti-Islam agenda since winning her first mandate in 2016, the rise has not been welcomed.
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As opposed to the benches that are purposely designed so you can’t lie on them. You see those all over the place under the guise of modern design language.
The amount of hate and ignorance ITT is staggering. Do better Lemmy, please
Lemmy has passed it’s golden moment now that enough regular Redditors made if over.
Oh my friend it is going to get much, much worse. And of course this could all be solved by lemmy admins and mods cracking down on fascist posters, but they won’t.
What do you mean? I only see people here venting possible reasons for why European countries are vary of Islam. There’s no hate going on here.
If there was a confused hyper normalized comment here it’s yours.
There is a difference between trying to figure out why ppl are racist towards a particular group and saying that we should discriminate everyone equally who believe in god(The latter of which is prominent here)
I respect atheists a lot because they (mostly) actually do something good rather than bigotry in the name of god, but what I am seeing here is no different than extremism by other religious fanatics
‘Ban all prayers’ ‘My belief(s) are superior than others and anyone who doesn’t share my belief is dumb/terrorist etc etc’
They have turned atheism into some sort of cool shit for teenagers. ‘Oh you
don’t have a bikeare not atheist? LOL every cool kidhas a bikedoesn’t believe in your skydaddy lol, you are so gross and dirty and dumb’I have argued a lot about this on lemmy, and I will admit some are in good faith, but most of them were just religious extremist, just without the religious part
Edit(s): Shit ton of typos 50th edit: Great example down where you see people claiming anyone who follows a religion is dumb🤷🏼♂️
Everyone likes to think of Italy as this land of the cultured and sophisticated with all the art, food, and architecture. But you’ll find a lot of Italians are as racist and ass backwards as a toothless Klan member in Mississippi.
My GF is Italian. That’s pretty much how she describes Italy.
Italy literally invented fascism.
Hitler used to jerk off to pictures of Mussolini while building his movement.
Mussolini invented fascism, not Italy . Lots of Italians fell for it and supported it, the rest of the population - the vast majority - had to endure it and were straight up forced to live by its rules through persecution, imprisonment, violence, oppression, physical torture, displacement and homicide. Google the crimes of the Camicie Nere. Millions of Italians were killed because they wouldn’t accept the dictatorship. Look up the Partigiani fighters, they are the true heroes of the anti-fascist fight. Google the Fosse Ardeatine Massacre as one of many examples. Americans fancy themselves the saviours but they stepped in very very late when all the hard work had been done already by the Partigiani. Italy is historically a socialist country, so to say “Italy invented fascism” is just wrong.
Millions of Italians were killed because they wouldn’t accept the dictatorship.
100,000 max (45k combat. 45k pow camps) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_resistance_movement
Those are the Partigiani, but countless other Italians have been killed because they were against fascism, even before the Partigiani movement formed.
Mussolini invented fascism, not Italy
If this is the case you’re gonna have to give back a lot of things that are attributed to “Italy”. I think it’s well understood what is meant when someone claims something is from a region/area/country. It was an Italian and it took a country to back it. It’s Italian.
it took a country to back it
So you don’t understand how dictatorship works, ok.
Not the point. That’s a huge red herring.
Was Mussolini part of the government when fascism was invented? Then yes. Italy invented fascism.
It’s okay. It’s history.
What does that even mean…
Giovanni Gentile and Benito Mussolini invented fascism. Indeed, it’s history. Whathttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_fascism
Correct. They were part of the government at the time, therefore Italy invented fascism.
Just like Britain invented the first tank. Not “some dude in the government.”
I have never once in my life thought of Italy as being sophisticated. I feel like they definitely use to be but havnt been in a long time.
“Everyone likes to think of Italy as this land of the cultured and sophisticated…”
This is no big deal and it’s kinda funny, but really it just sounds like you thought that, and then were shocked when you learned otherwise lol.
Because I honestly don’t know anyone who believes that. While I’m sure there are people who do, it’s not this massive common misconception that you’re claiming.
No I’ve never been and don’t plan on going, mainly because of the racism and warnings from other black travelers. That being said outside of Europe the idea Italians are cultured, suave, and classy is definitely a thing. Europe in general is stereotyped that way.
Anecdotal but my impression is that most people feel like Italy is a culturally sophisticated place and don’t realise there’s a lot of racism and prejudism.
As an Italian, I would say that’s not the case, not “a lot of Italians are racist”. I’ve had interactions with a few racist people of older generations, but I would say that they are the exception, thankfully.
Would you say Italian football fans would be considered “a lot of Italians?”
Or Fratelli d’Italia party members and voters?
Sometimes I think racism is nutrients for a lot of italians because they can not and will not stop with it
Frankly, that’s kind of hard to believe when your country has an openly fascist government
Damn, you must not live there, even in the south, were people are mostly ignorant, all I hear is complains about giorgia meloni and how shitty her government is 🥶🙏
I don’t live in Italy, that’s correct. But if nobody likes the fascists, who voted for them, then?
The most likely reason is that most of the young people did not vote, leaving the vote to old people and middle aged ones.
Though, by living in the south, I may have a different view of it, as most politicians hate our southern asses, including the meloni
Edit: so, excluding most younger people, it leaves most of the northerns individuals ( who usually have more money invested in their infrastructure by governments ) and old people who are likely to vote for her. But it is still weird as literally anyone I talk to, not friends, just random people,vsay that they have not voted for her, even including some oldies that I know personally
Edit 2: no but like seriously, literally no one likes her, especially after the shitshow she has been making with the bonuses
But why did she win if not because of the majority of voting Italians wanted her? (which could be just half+1, I concede)
This is why Trump won in 2016. Complacency. “Everyone in my state hates his guts. He must not be popular, then. I don’t even need to vote since Clinton will clearly win!”
Replied to the other person about this!
They also make very low quality export olive oil.
They actually make really good quality olive oil but “water” it down with cheap filler oils and export an inferior product because that’s safer and more profitable than trafficking drugs.
The decision to ban burkini is weird. You can’t swim nude on Italy’s beaches, but can’t swim fully clothed either?
I can see how banning the Burkini in indoor pools makes sense from a hygienic perspective, but banning them on public beaches is just to take something enjoyable away from a specific group of people.
France is pretty strict on that. Apparently men can’t wear trunk style swimming bottoms. I’m not sure how they handle the burkini vs rashguard issue. I know rashguards are very popular with a lot of east asians because they worry about skin cancer.
People pee in the pool. I doubt a Burkini is going to make the hygienic difference.
Hard agree. Pools are gross—anyone getting in one knows that and accepts it. I’ll take a lady in a burkini over an unattended child any day.
Why us there so much muslim hate in Europe, I just don’t get it
a lot of islamic terror attacks in the past have made people bitter.
and i mean a lot of them
So this is what Lemmy is doing now? “Why is there hatred of Muslims? Because
they’re terroristsof frequent terror attacks.”Maybe you had all these terror attacks because you already had large groups of disaffected young men who didn’t feel like local society had anything for them and then became radicalised?
In France, Muslims are half as likely to get a callback for a job than Christians with the same credentials.. So people already hated them. The terrorist attacks are just the latest excuse.
I think it just might have to do with the history of Islamic terror attacks…
Such as the London bombings and bridge attack, Charlie Hebdo attack and the more recent stabbings in France, the Madrid train bombings which killed 193 people, the November 2015 Paris attack in which 130 were murdered, the 2016 Atatürk Airport attack in Turkey which left 45 dead, the 2016 Brussels bombings, just to name a few…
I’m not suggesting that all or even most Islamic individuals are dangerous/terrorists. But there is a long, bloody history of Islamic extremism throughout Europe.
I’m also not suggesting this justifies these bans in Italy whatsoever. I share this because it’s essential context to answer your question.
Muslim immigrants will have de facto faced as much (if not far more) hostility and prejudice before any of those events.
What changed is that by the late 20th century, it had become politically unacceptable for right-wing parties to be perceived to be preying on overt racism towards their countries’ brown-skinned citizens. But the War on Terror at the start of the 21st century created a new organising framework for nativists, whereby they could incite hatred against exactly the same brown-skinned people as before, but claim they were targeting them for their religion and not their skin colour. At the heart of it is still the same prejudice towards those who are different, it’s just that the aspect of difference they choose to focus on today is more politically acceptable than the one they used to focus on.
From the perspective of a brown-skinned Muslim immigrant, the ideological hoops the far-right jump through are likely irrelevant. These people were targeted by nativists before, and they get targeted by nativists now.
I don’t disagree with you that it’s the product of racism and discrimination. But the terror attacks also fuel that hate.
I can say the same thing about the consequences of my (US) country’s actions in the ‘war on terror.’ We’re the greatest contributing factor to the formation of ISIS. The casualties of our drone strikes alone (from Bush, Obama, and trump) were vastly civilian targets.
Whether it’s politically/religiously motivated drone strikes on civilians, bombs in subways, or knife attacks, those actions spawn further fear, hate, intolerance, and extremism.
Even though Italy is enacting racist policies/systems, they are able to gather support for/‘justify’ their actions due largely to the terror attacks throughout Europe.
It’s more than just a product of it - it’s the main factor.
Over the last half century or so, the UK has experienced around 200 civilian deaths from Islamic terrorism and around 2,000 civilian deaths from Irish terrorism. Which community do you think the far-right in the UK tend to target?
The ones with more melanin who look different. Too easy.
Consequences stemming from the destabilization of the middle east by foreign interference.
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I never said that one or the other european country was or wasn’t involved, but consequences of an action aren’t limited to who enacts it or to who is acted upon. Some here in these comments mention terrorism. As an example of what I meant when I said “consequences stemming from the destabilization of the middle east by foregin interference”, I will mention the perception of Islam as a religion that endorses terrorism as some here in the comments did. Religious extremism has only become a problem due to foreign interference. One of the most well known groups, ISIS, only became as strong as they became due to the Iraq war.
Yet they somehow have to take in muslim “refugees” and destabilize their own country in the process.
I don’t know if you are expressing your disapproval of their immigration, but I feel like we shouldn’t put the two kinds of “destabilization” on equal levels. I’m sure the german and french natives can’t say they have anywhere near as many problems as the people arriving. I also must note a certain double standard here in that I don’t see anyone speaking against receiving ukrainian refugees, despite those countries not being blamed with what is happening in Ukraine.
Probably because there is a, perceived or cultivated, associations between Muslims and immigrants/people of color. And if you can’t outright punish someone based on “race” you go after the closest thing.
It’s not about skin colour, it’s about a way of life that is considered too radically different from their own: racists assume that muslims don’t want to integrate in Italian society, don’t follow the rules, abuse women with their hijabs and restrictions of movement (muslim women can’t drive nor go anywhere without a male relative). The native Muslim community is so minuscule in Italy that most Muslims are immigrants and speak other languages Italians don’t understand and makes them suspicious. They are concerned they could hide weapons under their tunics and hijabs. They don’t like that they cover their face and can’t be identified. It’s the lifestyle that they are bothered with, the skin colour is irrelevant. Italians were equally racist against Albanians in the 90ies because they were migrating in Italy by the thousands per day and were committing a lot of crimes, and Albanians are caucasians.
muslim women can’t drive nor go anywhere without a male relative
This only true in middle east. Muslim women in south east asia don’t have this restriction and can do whatever they want like living alone, drive cars and hold any job, even leadership positions such as president and ministers.
They are concerned they could hide weapons under their tunics and hijabs. They don’t like that they cover their face and can’t be identified.
People can already conceal weapons beneath their jacket or suit, and covid basically normalize wearing masks in a lot of countries (not sure about Italy, is it normal for a person to walk around wearing masks there?).
muslim women can’t drive nor go anywhere without a male relative
That’s actually not true, it is accepted that as long as one remains within the border of a city or county, there is need for a male to escort, the dispute is only about traveling outside of the city, some say it’s not necessary even then, some say it is necessary if they need to stay for a night, some say 3 nights, but this ‘can’t travel anywhere without male’ is completely wrong, this is might be stated by conservative(s) or maybe racists idk about that
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Well, I thought I had a little insight on the matter since I’m Italian, guess I was wrong. /s
Well, you are not obliged to follow it, you can’t use this as an excuse to take away their rights, I don’t like iPhones so I am going to ban them
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What do you mean by ‘local culture’, if that means that one should stop practicing their religion, than that goes against your own constitution, if you want a place like that, then by all means, make a ‘local culture’ where everyone is only allowed to do what you or the majority wants, but then spell it out clearly in your book, then if someone goes against, they are at fault, but you put on the image of secularism and freedom of expression, and then deny one particular group this right
And the word for these kind of people rhymes with ‘fascist’
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Huh? Why does every discussion on muslim rights always start getting to Muhammad when y’all can’t justify your hypocrisy, how many modern day muslims have slaves or multiple wives/marry under the present age of consent in your country? The topic is why are you taking away their basic rights guaranteed to them by your country itself, if they do any of the things mentioned above in the present day, then that should be dealt separately
Most muslims in western countries do far more crimes than locals
Sauce?
And arab countries are not a very great example in most things but one thing you can’t deny is that they have extremely low crime rates
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_Arab_Emirates
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Saudi_Arabia
A simple google search was enough from on your side, but since you don’t seem to be arguing in good faith, I put some wiki links for you
I’m pretty sure that’s against italian constitution. Freedom of religion is a fundamental freedom on EU level as well.
Municipalities in Italy have been pushing an anti-Muslim agenda since at least 9/11 as part of the right-wing identity politics agenda.
Mosques and cultural centers are seen as radicalization centers.
They know that any court would shoot down shit like this as unconstitutional, but Italian law is slow as molasses and their goal is signaling to xenophobes and racists.
Who knew electing fascists would lead to fundamental freedoms of minorities being removed?
Who knew electing fascists would lead to fundamental freedoms being removed?
FIFY
How about ban all prayers?
hmmm… no ? you understand that would hurt many people ?
anti-theists never care about the damage they inflict, as they are strong believers that the damages religion brings is infinitely worse than the atrocities they feel they must commit to eradicate it.
It’s just another flavor of fanaticism that feels entitled to their violent rhetoric because ‘they see more clearly’.
It’s the same euphoria any zealot feels.
euphoria any zealot feels.
Thank you in advance for making me feel good about calling your god skydaddy. Why don’t you pray to it to stop me?
I am stunned, stunned I tell you, that a culture famous for its misogyny is also backwards in nearly every other possible way.
now come on - don’t judge all Italians based on piece of shit Berlusconi and other fascists.
I’m sure all the good Italians will start rioting any minute now.
The article clearly says that 8k people in a town of 30k took to the streets.
… but how would I know that, not having read the article? /s
Yes, I commented without reading the article. Shame.
That’s an impressive percentage. For comparison, 86.3 million US citizens protesting, which has never come close to happening, would be the same percentage as this little town.
Isn’t this unconstitutional?
It’s in italy, not the US.
Italy has a constitution, as far as I know most countries do
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_constitutions
Who said anything about the US?
If I understand correctly Italy also has a constitution…
Not sure why everyone is downvoting the original commenter. He seems to be correct that this is not supported by the Italian constitution. Kinda feels like we all ignored how italy’s government actually works in favor of going “actually this isn’t about America”… In a way that seems distinctly like it would only be possible from an American perspective 😅
Sincerely, an American who knows little to nothing about Italy’s government
Bigotry aside, that seems like a wildly unenforceable law: What are they going to do? Go house to house to make sure people aren’t praying the wrong way?
Muslims often have massive group prayer, it’s about outlying public participation for one specific religious group.
Christianity did this.
