Summary
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy warned Europe that it cannot withstand Russia without Ukraine’s military, calling Ukraine’s victory vital to stopping Kremlin expansion.
Speaking to Polish media, Zelenskyy stressed that Russia’s larger, more brutal army would target other European nations if Ukraine falls.
He criticized Western allies for underestimating Russian President Vladimir Putin’s ambitions, urging them to strengthen Ukraine’s defenses.
He’s right.
Ukraine grows a LOT of grain. It’s going to be a big problem when they stop providing Europe and the world.
On a more cynical note: Ukraine grows a lot of Russian obituaries, which the EU doesn’t have to, should they try to invade the Baltics once they are successful in Ukraine.
I’m not certain why your point was downvoted (maybe the wording confused people)… but folks may grumble about paying extra taxes to financially support the Ukrainian army but that does not even compare to the rage governments would face if they started sending volunteer or drafted troops to fight the frontline.
It’s incredibly cynical of course - but if Ukraine is willing to fight and die for European freedom for the low low cost of just some money its insane to reject their offer.
Russia will not stop at Ukraine. They may stop at the Polish border, but the Baltic states are absolutely within Putin’s gaze.
if Ukraine is willing to fight and die for European freedom for the low low cost of just some money its insane to reject their offer.
Insane. It pisses me off no end that we haven’t given them the tools to not just defend their freedom, but to win. Fuck your fear of escalation. There are North Korean soldiers fighting a war of aggression in Europe.
Like how much more are we going to take?
all of it. Europe bought the lie of peace dividends, outsourced their defense to America, and elected weapons grade morons and co-conspirators like Burlesconi, Merkel and Orban, who opened the door for Putin to put Europe in a comprimising position once he decided to s tart shooting.
And now America wants out.
Europe’s either going to have to prepare for war. or accept that Russia is going to get to do what it wants, and continue to ratfuck European politics with shit like Orban, Fico, and whatever the fuck BRUV is.
Not a problem for Europe.
https://agriculture.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2023-11/efscm-assessment-autumn-2023_en.pdf
Reads differently
Looking ahead, most of the respondents expect current risks to persist, in particular the frequency of extreme weather events, and the unpredictability of how the Russian invasion of Ukraine will evolve. Concerning the latter, risks are not only linked to the availability of imports, but also to ongoing price volatility both for inputs and commodities and to potential logistical restrictions in place. Several respondents anticipate no decline in food inflation in the coming months, as input and production costs are expected to stay up, thus keeping consumer prices high due to delayed price transmission between different stages of the food chain
So there are concerns about the invasion and it’s driving food inflation.
I never claimed climate change couldn’t cause increased prices. But EU has lots of spare farmland that farmers are paid to NOT use to REDUCE production to avoid huge stockpiles like we had in the 70’s.
EU can increase production a lot if we want.So as I wrote EU is not and is not likely to become dependent on Ukrainian grain.
That and at least here in Germany we also use tons of land to grow energy plants such as rapeseed (apparently that alone uses 10% of all farming land), which imo is just incredibly inefficient. In case of an emergency at this scale i’d imagine that would be turned back to producing something like weat.
We could also simply produce a bit less meat, which is similarly inefficient in howmuch you need to feed the animals per kg of product.
I understand what he’s saying, and there is a good point to it, and i am not trying to brag, but…
Europe has the real weapons, Russia has mostly 1960 weapons left. Europe has jets that will very quickly give Europe air superiority. It has a good 4 years to prepare, Russia has broken half its teeth on Ukraine. The only advantage that the Russian army has now that it has a log of soldiers with heavy combat experience, but Europe has the advantage that it has been seeing for 4 years how Russians do their job and so far that job had been abysmal. They can barely hold their own against Ukraine troops, how are they supposed to hold their own against much more military personnel with much better weapons?
Unless things change, and ignoring nukes, once you have air superiority, that’s it, the other party is pretty much done for. Europe would not have to play by the rules that the Ukraine is playing by right now, they can and will take the fight to Russian territory.
A Russian invasion into the rest of Europe would be disastrous for Europe but it would be terminal for Russia. It would end either with Putin dead and Russia under control of Europe, or it would end with nukes which would automatically drag the entire world into WWIII after whcih we can all enjoy the fun again of living in the middle ages for the following hundred years or so.
This also ignores that, with the current abhorrent state of the Russian army as it is, they still gotta defend their own territory and they have half an actual super power sitting right next door that would also love to take bits and pieces of it. In the state they currently are, how are they going to do that, and then also take enough to defend Europe? Putin may be a dictator, but he too had to deal with popularity, and hoe populair you think he’ll be once he needs to do two or three new draft rounds to get enough people to fight his wars?
I don’t see a European invasion happening, it’d be the same mistake as Hitler invading Russia back then
This is such deluded patriotism it should be coming from an american.
Russia wouldn’t invade “Europe”, they would invade, say, Moldova (which is their actual plan). Is Germany going to commit troops to defend Moldovian soil? They aren’t for Ukraine. What about the UK? France? Will they send their vaunted jets and soldiers? There’s material being given to Ukraine, and intelligence, and all kinds of backroom advice, and how much of it will stop once Trump takes us out of NATO? Can europe pick up the slack? Are you going to rally together and strike Russia to stop them building up, or will the russian backed neofascist parties that are on the rise in every country seize power before you have the chance?
You should be really, really worried, because the odds are that your country spends less than 2% of it’s GDP on it’s military. How long do you think that you’re going to be able to hold out against Russia, alone, with that?
Eastern Europe: “we know already, and they (pointing westwards) are starting to get it”.
The ones that really don’t get it are former Warsaw pact areas like Hungary, Slovakia and Serbia. Who actively SUPPORT Russia!
Serbia is not former Warsaw pact.
true, I thought it was, but apparently not. But it was in the Russian sphere of communist “eastern block” countries.
Zelensky is correct, Putin is identical to, take your pick, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, Franco and Tojo.
Stalin is one of three world leaders that SAVED Europe from Hitler. I also find it hard to believe the much of Europe was scared of Tojo who may have instead also been scared of Stalin. --That’s was a bad analogy. Do better.
Stalin did not save Europe. He took what he wanted to create the regressive Warsaw Pact. The Bolshevik bastard was on the same level as the fuck nut Hitler.
Are we painting Stalin as a good guy here? He only fought Germany because they tried to invade. Before that he repeatedly made attempts to court Nazi Germany. He signed a nonaggression pact, made an agreement to secretly divide Eastern Europe together, and continued trading. Stalin didn’t really give a shit about the fascism part, he only cared once his own territory and sphere of influence were threatened. Same as all the other major allies, btw. Everyone tried appeasement first, nobody really cared about the fascism.
“Saving Europe from Hitler” paints it as a selfless act of heroism when really everyone was mostly concerned with maintaining their own power.
You’re replying to a .ml. Just save your energy, they’re not worth talking to.
LOL. Most of you couldn’t stop yourselves if you wanted to.
Stalin was good at war, bad at economics, but wanted total control.
It’s ok to say Russia fighting Germany helped defeat Hitler.
It’s weird to try to turn histoical fact into a subjective argument. And only helps our owners sow dissent.
You’re better than these lazy reactionist takes
Are we painting Stalin as a good guy here?
No, I’m painting a bad analogy as bad. Do better!
> Carves up Poland
> Wages a war of total destruction en route to Berlin
> Invents a new form of genocide in Ukraine
Yeah cool. The saviour of Europe
Didn’t Stalin offer Britain and France to fight the Nazis together first ,but was ignored?
Stalin as in an ally of Nazi Germany until Hitler betrayed him?
Yes many people ignore the inconvenient part of history where Stalin tried to not ally with Hitler. But that was ignored probably because Britain thought Commies were scary. So Stalin went ahead and forged a pact with Hitler.
Yes. Molotov, the URSS Commissar for Foreign Affairs, did try to engage France and Britain to form a defensive tripartite pact, which the Western powers ignored.
The Soviets didn’t exactly throw themselves at the German’s arms at first. Stalin was very wary of the Nazis, in fact.
But Hitler practically begged Stalin to buddy up with the Nazis, dangling Poland, Finland, etc. as the proverbial carrot in front of them. The Nazi’s insistence paid off.
Lol
Can’t we just buy the grain off of Russia if they win? Asking for a friend
During WW2 there were people buying gold teeth from concentration camps wardens without asking any questions.
Ask your friend if his grandpa was one of them.
I think we should help Ukraine, but Russia would get their clock cleaned by European NATO (even without US).
Regardless, I’d rather we not test that theory. It doesn’t matter which side wins, we all would lose.
and Europe would take catastrophic casualties in doing so.
America is an ocean away, and doesn’t have to worry about war on their soil.Europe on the other hand, can you honestly say that society is ready for events like Bucha on their soil? a Russian brigade breaks through the line, gets bogged down,isnt able to advance any further, so decides to loot , rape and mass murder the population before retreating?
Bucha and Mariupol is why the entire NATO strategy changed. it used to be that the baltics would effectively be surrendered temporarily while the European backbone mobilized, France Germany Poland etc. But thats no longer an option because intelligence knows that the Russian Soldiery, for lack of a better term, act like savage ghouls. and will put innocent men women and children to the sword for no reason other than spite.
and failing that, they will bomb a city to dust like they did to Mariupol, Bakhmut, and so many others
One thing Russia has infintely more experience than Europe, its people are used to the realities of war, Martial law, no rights, Resource scarcity, No protesting. they just behave like lemmings now. Its sad, but its an advantage.
European populations would be calling for an armistice and selling out countries on the periphery as soon as it started because they dont want to go to war.
Lmao you really fell for the Russian propaganda.
quite the opposite.
but I’ve been watching their actions for the last 10 years. And it’s clear to me that most of Europe has not even been remotely taking this seriously. Militarily Russia will obviously lose, but an unthinkable amount of people will still die.
World War III is already in it’s pre-game show phase. and Quisling governments are already trying to take hold of European countries before the drop of the ball/puck/etc
Lolololol. Russia couldn’t invade the one of the poorest countries in Europe. They couldn’t do shit against any real power. And now they’ve wasted all their equipment and men. Ok I’m out you’ve fallen hard for bs.
Ok I’m out
Good riddance.
How many NATO soldiers have experience fighting a full-scale war on their territory against an enemy with similar technological and production capabilities?
How many NATO soldiers have experience fighting a full-scale war on their territory against an enemy with similar technological and production capabilities?
I’m not sure, but since this is the Russian-Ukraine conflict we’re talking about, we don’t have to worry about one showing up. Russia is barely a near peer to Ukraine, they wouldn’t stand a snowballs chance in hell against more than one country at a time without their nukes, let alone NATO as a whole.
Nukes are literally the only thing that lets Russia pretend they’re still a superpower and not a failed state. But as we can see in Ukraine, they can’t even beat a former client state and has to resort to bringing our cold war era equipment, so double lol at “similar capabilities”
Russia is more than capable of butchering european civilian populations, that is the main concern.
everyone knows they’d get their shit rocked in conventional war, its the mass murder of civilians, bombardment of cities, and retaliatiory table flipping ragequit nuclear attacks that everyone is afraid of.
Realtalk, Ukraine and russia are the only two big nations with experience in drone warfare, which is the current patch. Everyone else hasn’t really updated yet.
Putin has said as much, it is why he constantly reminds everyone of his nuclear arsenal and apparent willingness to end the world over small matters.
Putin doesn’t own a big red button he can push to launch nukes. There are layers in command that would not comply. And they’ve done it before. Same goes for Trump.
I’m not sure how, for one second you believe that if Putin ordered a nuclear strike, that order wouldn’t be carried out.
the Russian system is far less removed from failsafes than the US one is.
while I dont think its active anymore, the russian system was rumoured to be completely autonomous too, meaning if connection was broken between points A and B, or however the network was set up, such as Moscow or the supposed command bunkers in Mount Yamantau got taken out, some missiles would launch automatically.
as I said though, I dont think they’ve had the dead hand turned on for many many years. trusting a soviet computer not to malfunction is like playing russian roulette with 4 in the cylinder.
except ukraine was the one maintaining russian missiles and we know very well how poor russian military maintenance culture is and how low the morale is to do anything if failure to do so does not result in beatings/rape. Pair that with how damn remote everything is and how even in 90s there were silos where not the high maintenance missile was in disrepair but the silo basic systems were, then the more accurate analogy would be "russian roulette with 25 round capacity cylinder, 10 rounds in and 90% are duds.
10% of Russian nukes working fine would still be a catastrophe not worth risking.
Zelenskyy can go fuck himself. He’s a total idiot if he hasn’t figured out he’s a US puppet for a proxy war.
of course this is from a @lemmy.ml user
Sure, a puppet in a war on their own territory, that the other side invaded.
Ukraine wouldn’t be at war if Russia stayed in their borders.
Zelenskyy wouldn’t have need to be a “puppet” if there wasn’t a war in Ukraine.
So even if what you said was true, it is all putins fault.
They’ve been operating as the tip of the spear and begging for more ammo since day 1, they know full well it’s a proxy not just between US/Russia but the EU and old agreed land divisions all across the continent. They’ve been held back due to MAD concerns and the new administration is fully fascist.
What do you suggest this “unknowing puppet” do instead, your better idea?
Harsh but true. The downvoters aren’t interested in reading the reality of the situation, and it does suck to see entire countries being treated as expendable pawns, but that’s just how the game of global politics is played.
There is a reason why the west is not authorizing Ukraine to strike more aggressively deep within Russia even when Ukraine put in the hard work and made the sacrifice to counter the invasion.
Ukraine wouldn’t be a “pawn” if Russia never invaded and kept to the treaties they made with NATO.
The west doesn’t have to authorize anything. Since Ukraine is a sovereign nation that can decide that themselves.
And they did, or do you think Moscow isn’t “deep” enough? https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/10/europe/ukraine-drone-strikes-moscow-intl/index.html
