Star Citizen is in this picture. They added hunger and dehydration to a space exploration, cargo, and fighting game.
I’ll be “that guy” but according to Chris Roberts (the guy who owns CIG that is making the game) star citizen is supposed to be a “space life” game. It’s not an “arcade game” where there is a specific game type it is built around. You’re supposed to just be a dude/dudette living your life out in space and do what you want which can include all the things you mentioned. I personally want that very much. There are a million games out there that do the basic space pew pew thing or mining, but nothing like a life sim.
There’s going to be more than just hunger and dehydration, they built toilets and showers into some ships for a specific reason not just atheistics lol
Yeah, the problem is it wasn’t sold as a space life game a decade ago. And there’s a vast gulf between space life sim and actually having to eat/pee. It was already controversial when he said capital ships wouldn’t despawn so you’ll have to hide it and keep a 24/7 watch to make sure it isn’t stolen. A game isn’t supposed to be a job, there’s got to be a happy medium there.
Oh boy. Time for an 800 comment long flamewar about Star Citizen. I’m ready.
I’m proud to be the one to start the fire this time. To be clear I do really want a good game out of all this.
Personally, I think Star Citizen is shallow and pedantic.
It is, it’s also in alpha still. If they were claiming beta in this state I’d be more worried rather than just mad they keep adding stupid shit instead of going full optimization. They have a game, they just need to get it out the door and worry about content in future releases. It’s like the painter who can’t call a painting finished.
After what feels like 20 years, it still being in alpha should worry you more than if this current state was called a beta.
Yes and no. On the other side they’ve essentially rebooted development something like 3 or 4 times. So there’s a chance it comes up roses.
For other games that would be described as development hell
They can claim whatever they want. But if it’s publicly available then it’s a beta regardless of what arbitrary name they give it.
If it was alpha it should be free.
I really feel there would be a market for something like star citizen without all the realism stuff that gets in the way of the gameplay. I’m a backer, and when I can get to playing the game it’s fun, but finding my way to the launch pad after every two years break when I’m trying to checkup on progress sucks.
Literally any other space game.
You’re talking about No Man’s Sky and Elite Dangerous. The whole point of Star Citizen is the realism.
Drag thinks hunger mechanics in a spaceship game are too much, though.
Same here, I loved the idea of a walk on space game I could play with friends. I loved the idea of ground side fights and boarding actions.
But now we’ve got some kind of super high fidelity survival game. If you can even run it it’s far more akin to an first person POV EVE.
And development teams are too big. No game should realistically be having 500+ people working on it. That’s too many people, too big a ship to steer fast enough for the changes that happen in game development. Even the biggest games have done very well with teams of 250 or less, including all staff that work on the game, how about development studios pay attention to that?
People expect all games to be multiplayer with online live ops and events and a steady flow of new content.
That’s why you need to have a 500 person team. Someone needs to be designing and coding the valentine’s event for 2025 right now
Companies want all games to be multiplayer with online live ops and events and a steady flow of microtransactions money.
I’ve heard this often, but most of the games I see people consume live updates for weren’t initially planned to get such constant updates.
Ex: Dead by Daylight. Released as dumb party horror game with low shelf life. Now on its 8th plus year. Fortnite: Epic’s base building game that pivoted to follow the battle royale trend, then ten other trends. DOTA 2: First released as a Warcraft map. GTA V: First released as a singleplayer game before tons of expansion went into online. Same with Minecraft.
It just doesn’t make sense to pour $500M into something before everyone agrees it’s a fun idea. There’s obviously nothing gained in planning out the “constant content cycle” before a game’s first public release.
Drag can think of one counterexample: Warframe. But Warframe is also 100% free to play and free to participate in every content update and event. And Warframe is developed by an indie team from Fake London who started the game with 120 employees.
Warframe feels just as riddled though with all of its different kinds of currencies and crafting mechanics. It may not have an egregious mtx model but the game loop around it still feels like it’s meant to. I much more enjoyed the game in beta when it was simpler. I go on it now and I haven’t got a fucking clue what to do, fumble around for an hour and just decide to play something else instead.
Warframe is much more fun with friends. Friends will tell you that you don’t have to bother with all the currencies. You can just do the story missions.
That’s the thing, had no idea there were specific story missions or where to do them
Oh, good news for you. They just released an update two days ago that separates the quests in the codex into story, side, and warframe quests. DE listened to player feedback and fixed the problem. Now you go to the codex terminal, you click on story quests, and it tells you what to do next.
Who is these people that want this? And even if they do. Creating a good game does not need 500 people. And if you want to provide content after setup several small parallel teams to make cosmetics and stuff.
But the whole live service is something the companies want. So they can keep monetizing it and turn if off once a new iteration is done.
Check out the leaks from the Sony/Microsoft trial
There are literally tens of millions of people who ONLY use their PS5 for CoD - a live service multiplayer game.
A whole generation of people have literally never played a single player game and don’t know how to.
It’s like they exist in an alternate reality. But then I’m fine with that too. If there is a market for that… just a shame that the hunt for this audience eats up everything else.
Single player games with a good story and fun replayability are what I’m after. Or co-op. Occasionally, a fun multiplayer with a risky, innovative design like Lethal Company.
If a game requires me to collect 100 goddamn feathers, or press X 20 times to “survive” a heavily scripted encounter, you are doing your game wrong. Look at Black Mesa, look at Subnatica. Look at the games that took risks like Lethal Company or Elite Dangerous. You don’t have to appeal to everyone. You have to tell a story well, and the gameplay should be unique and interesting. Larian understood that with Divinity 2, and made improvements to both story and gameplay in BG3.
Unfortunately the good taste of people who actively comment about games often has only slight overlap with what makes money.
Three of the top ten US game earners in 2024 were yearly sports game rehashes. One of the top ten games was Call Of Duty. One was Fortnite.
These are money making machines. We can argue and beg and plead all we want. There is a huge mass of gamers out there was simply don’t care, and who will continue to buy formulaic rehashes and microtransaction infested treadmills.
The AAA publishers are not in it for the art. Look at AA and indie if you want games that are willing to appeal to a niche. I’m talking to you and everyone else reading this because this might actually have an effect. Saying what AAA publishers and developers should do is pointless, not like they will ever read it.
Lethal company is literally just old school d&d tho
You go into dungeons, try to avoid all the monsters because they can kill you in one hit, get the treasure they protect and gold is xp.
Drag wonders what you think of the feather collecting in A Short Hike
Games got bigger to their own detriment. Halo and Gears of War are open world games now, and they’re worse off for it. Assassin’s Creed games used to be under 20 hours, and now they’re over 45. Not every game is worse for being longer, as two of my favorite games in the past couple of years are over 100 hours long, clocking in at three times the length of their predecessors, but it’s much easier to keep a game fun for 8-15 hours than it is for some multiple of that, and it makes the game more expensive to make, raising the threshold for success.
Halo as an open world is fucking awesome. I love Infinite.
The next step, in terms of budget and computing power required, which I eagerly await, is a massively multiplayer co-op Halo:
- open universe
- Humanity versus Covenant
- massively co-op
- 10,000+ humans in perpetual battle against endless Covenant invasion
That’s probably gonna require billion dollar budgets and quantum computers to pull off, but it’s coming. And I can’t fucking wait.
Planetside already exists. Just do that and scale up to more planets
Planetside blows
You think Planetside blows and you’re asking for Planetside. That’s odd. What don’t you like about it? It’s probably a symptom of what you’re asking for.
(Also, you don’t really seem to know what you’re talking about anyway, because quantum computers aren’t super powerful computers or something. They’re like a GPU. They’re specialized processors that are better at a few specific tasks. Binary CPUs are still probably always going to be what’s used for most computation.)
No, I’m not asking for Planetside. You said what I’m asking for is Planetside, not me.
What I don’t like about Planetside is the shit graphics, the fact that the entire game is circle-strafing polygon spiders around on a GTA motorcycle, the fact that enemies simply teleport into existence and in perfect proportion to the number of people nearby, the monotonous world design, etc.
Quantum computers can solve some differential equation problems in essentially zero time. You seem to assume that most heavy lifting cannot be expressed in terms of this data type; that seems premature to me.
Quantum computers are insanely powerful computers. Their performance on the class of problems which they can solve is essentially infinite.
The graphics aren’t that bad, considering how old it is. Yeah, a modern game would probably look better but good graphics don’t make a good game, nor should realism be confused for good graphics.
IIRC Planetside used to at least have totally lopsided battles. They’d mark zones as hot and people could spawn there to even things out, but we used to do large server-wide organized attacks where we bring a large number of troops to capture zones before the enemy could organize a counter. I don’t know if this is still true, but the fact it isn’t (if it isn’t) means there were issues they were trying to solve, which there totally was. How do you suppose a Halo skin would fix the issue, especially if they can’t just spawn in there? How do they prevent one team from being rolled (which will be even worse without a third faction to level things out against the one faction doing the rolling)?
I actually prefer the world design of PS2 to Halo Infinite. Most of the world in HI is identical. PS2 at least has a few planets with very different terrain, and they also have regions that are largely different from the rest. The terrain also makes some vehicles more or less useful, which doesn’t really happen in HI. In HI every vehicle is essentially exactly as good in all locations.
Unpopular opinion: open world ruined Zelda. I thought I’d love the concept. But actually give it to me? Ughhh… Spend forever doing side quests because you don’t know if the equipment will only be good now or if youll need it down the road… No real guidance so you can end up just meandering around…
I liked the more structured narrative. Don’t get me wrong - it’s cool to play Link and just do whatever you want. But for a story game, a more defined linear path is more engaging imo.
Wasn’t Zelda always open world? LttP was about as open world as they come back in the day?
Open world while still needing to go through the temples in a certain order. Various gadgets were required to progress, but crafty players often got around this. Pokemon would also be called “open world”, but could you just walk up to the Elite 4 from the beginning? Nope, had to get them badges first.
There’s “open to exploration” open world and “here’s a giant map, go wild”(a la Fallout/Skyrim). I prefered a Zelda with more guidance. Even Wind Waker, arguably the most open world, still had a progression the game tried to keep you on.
Yeah so today there’s more of a spectrum. Back in the 80s and 90s there were far fewer choices.
I get what you mean though, just wanted to point out it’s more complicated to judge older games by new standards. Eg. if Zelda were a new franchise it might just be a fully open world from the get go.
For me it took away the joy of the puzzles and building on a theme that the older Zeldas did.
I’ve not played TotK so maybe it brings back more of the dungeon feel from the older ones that I enjoyed, but I don’t have huge amounts of time for gaming these days.
Drag finished BOTW and now likes riding around Hyrule on a motorbike looking for koroks. Drag thinks the game is great if you use it as something to pick up and play a little bit of every now and then. Good game for bringing on airplanes and playing on the bus. Drag would have very much liked to have a game like that when drag was a child being dragged to boring dentist appointments and waiting to be picked up from school. Drag thinks maybe Nintendo is making games for children.
Space marine 2 seems like a good example of this.
Single player campaign: mediocre
CoOp missions: mediocre
Competitive multiplayer: poor
Seems like dropping one of those might have allowed the remaining two to earn a “pretty good”
It seems to be resonating pretty damn well for them. In fact, the competitive multiplayer has been praised for its simplicity and feeling a lot like the kind of multiplayer that we used to get so much of back in the 360 era.
back in the 360 era.
An era famous for its’ tacked-on multiplayer modes.
It was also famous for having multiplayer modes that were just fun and didn’t ask you to commit your life to them. Some of those multiplayer modes were really cool.
Reminds me of many “The reason why Call of Duty sucks” arguments I heard as a kid.
Like, my own tastes agree with you. But you don’t bring that argument into game industry discussion because fact is, the game is doing very well financially and obviously many players disagree with you. So you have to take that data, and work back to decide what the logical conclusion is.
